Temple Recommend required to work at BYU

[Solon]

Originally Posted by jay santos

The only time you get it at BYU is a religion class which probably is more progressive in those areas than you'll get from your master's degree rah-rah type CES institute teacher. No?

I have a theoretical question about a church history (religion) class at BYU. While I'm sure it depends on the teacher and situation, could a student be reprimanded for raising questions, writing papers, etc. that posit a more revisionist (negative) view of church history? How do or how have teachers handled difficult or controversial questions?

[Assuming, of course, that all was done respectfully and in the spirit of honest inquiry - not overly negative or cynical but responsibly critical and inquisitive.]

I'm sure there's no blanket answer, but does anyone have an anecdote or an example?

[myboynoah]

Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death

Its not that it can't happen its just less likely IMO.....

I guess my BYU education is failing me. I seek greater specificity, going beyond opinion. What areas of study would your kids be deprived of by going to BYU?

[Solon]

Originally Posted by Brian

Dude, you don't know how ugly am I and how little I dated (c:

I guarantee I have you beat in both categories. Thanks for the wisecrack. It's getting a little tense in this thread.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Solon

I have a theoretical question about a church history (religion) class at BYU. While I'm sure it depends on the teacher and situation, could a student be reprimanded for raising questions, writing papers, etc. that posit a more revisionist (negative) view of church history? How do or how have teachers handled difficult or controversial questions?

[Assuming, of course, that all was done respectfully and in the spirit of honest inquiry - not overly negative or cynical but responsibly critical and inquisitive.]

I'm sure there's no blanket answer, but does anyone have an anecdote or an example?

I don't know for sure, but knowing a few religion professors on a personal basis, I would guess that this would not be received well by many BYU religion prof's. It might get you a visit with your bishop.

Bottom line on this is: look at BYU's religion department as being similar to any other institute program. That kind of stuff is not going to fly at an institute program either. Look at the rest of BYU completely seperate from their religion department.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by jay santos

Biology professors teach evolution. History teachers teach history. So maybe there's some gray area about Joseph Smith and polygamy that they have to stay away from. So the anthropology researchers have to be careful about the MesoAmerica stuff they do. If you're bent on proving something false about the LDS church, BYU is probably not the right place for you as a prof or a student. Other than that, all bets are on.

Can you imagine a chemistry or physics prof having to worry about their work on the science of 5f electrons?

[Solon]

Originally Posted by jay santos

The only academic freedom issues he has is that he might like to publish some of his religion commentary in Sunstone, but he doesn't.

So maybe there's some gray area about Joseph Smith and polygamy that they have to stay away from. So the anthropology researchers have to be careful about the MesoAmerica stuff they do. If you're bent on proving something false about the LDS church, BYU is probably not the right place for you as a prof or a student. Other than that, all bets are on.

I agree with you. These are issues that would prevent me from attending or working at BYU, but if your friend is okay with them, who am I to have a problem with that? The same goes for BYU's students. If they like it, fine. There are lots of religious colleges out there that are even more strict on behavior (HC-type) rules and are even more conservative and explicit about what their professors can and can't teach.

Nevertheless, these types of self-censoring behaviors seem to undermine BYU's reputation for free and open inquiry and teaching in relation to other universities. Whether or not that perception bothers BYU and its administrators, I don't know and wouldn't venture to speculate. I see the conflict stemming from the inevitable comparisons and evaluations in relation to other schools. Unfairly, regardless of BYU's decisions on individual issues, I think the fact that it is a religious school will always be a strike against it in such matters.

For instance, I have a sociologist friend who is very interested in studying gambling's effect on families and communities. Even though he is not at all the stereotyped BYU-type, his adviser here (at Penn State) has recommended he not pursue this research because he did his undergraduate work at BYU. The adviser felt that anything he found would be considered biased by other sociologists because of this student's affiliation with the LDS school. Who knows what he would have concluded? It's unfair, but (for now) unavoidable.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Solon

I agree with you. These are issues that would prevent me from attending or working at BYU, but if your friend is okay with them, who am I to have a problem with that? The same goes for BYU's students. If they like it, fine. There are lots of religious colleges out there that are even more strict on behavior (HC-type) rules and are even more conservative and explicit about what their professors can and can't teach.

Nevertheless, these types of self-censoring behaviors seem to undermine BYU's reputation for free and open inquiry and teaching in relation to other universities. Whether or not that perception bothers BYU and its administrators, I don't know and wouldn't venture to speculate. I see the conflict stemming from the inevitable comparisons and evaluations in relation to other schools. Unfairly, regardless of BYU's decisions on individual issues, I think the fact that it is a religious school will always be a strike against it in such matters.

For instance, I have a sociologist friend who is very interested in studying gambling's effect on families and communities. Even though he is not at all the stereotyped BYU-type, his adviser here (at Penn State) has recommended he not pursue this research because he did his undergraduate work at BYU. The adviser felt that anything he found would be considered biased by other sociologists because of this student's affiliation with the LDS school. Who knows what he would have concluded? It's unfair, but (for now) unavoidable.

I'm fine with acknowledging there is a lack of academic freedom in some very narrow areas of study. You might not be able to learn the true Fannie Alger story at BYU. But can you learn it at Michigan? Honestly. Is there a class that would dissect anything LDS at a typical university that you would have a much different, freer environment? Or would those topics simply be absent? I'm fine with acnowledging that an anthroplogical professor has to tiptoe a little around MesoAmerican issues. If MesoAmerica anthropology is your thing, maybe BYU's not right for you.

The issue I have a serious problem with is that this alleged culture of academic "dishonesty" spills over to all areas and that BYU students are trained to be close minded robots. This is just totally and completely inaccurate.

[RockyBalboa]

Not all students are required to be temple recommend holders, so I don't think I agree that it should be a requirement for the teachers.....then again I know if you work for the LDS Church you're required to be a current temple recommend holder.

My Dad worked for the church for 17 years

[Archaea]

I like the idea of administration being required to hold one, but that the instructors and professors just agree not to go parading against the Church, to go on a tirade to embarrass the Church but that a little common sense be applied to Church history. Legitimate inquiry should not be squelched, but an outright effort to undermine should not be tolerated.

For example, in your case, you alluded the Bishop withheld yours during a divorce. If an instructor gets divorce, thereby losing his or her temple recommend, he or she loses her job?

Is there no redemption in Zion?

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Solon

I guarantee I have you beat in both categories. Thanks for the wisecrack. It's getting a little tense in this thread.

both of you are married so you can't be that bad. I read that some may have ever sired offspring?

Now, we might not be Davids but at least somebody was hoodwinked once.