Palestinian Right of Return - Page 10 - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

MikeWaters · 05-21-2008, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MudphudCoug

I'll try to track him down. I didn't know him personally. He was just excited that cougarguard had linked to his Q&A with Elder Holland.

what was his user name?

SoonerCoug · 05-21-2008, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

what was his user name?

Galapagos

Tex · 05-21-2008, 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Tex, please show me where Israel agreed to the 48 borders. I know it wasn't in the Oslo Accords. When did Israel offer this?

1948. And it wasn't Israel that "offered" it, it was the blessed and holy UN.

MikeWaters · 05-21-2008, 03:58 AM

one thing about this conflict--it has led me to believe that staying and fighting in Kirtland and Nauvoo would have been a disaster. Mormons would have won initially (like the Israelis) but in the longrun it would have been suffering and death for little cause.

MikeWaters · 05-21-2008, 04:09 AM

Also the lessons of Germany after WWI and Japan after WWII.

Germany was treated poorly after WWI, leading to the rise of Hitler.

Japan was treated with respect and given help, leading Japan to become an ally of the USA. A freaking ally.

And then of course rebuilding in Germany after WWII led to Germany being an ally of Britain and the USA.

Isn't there a lesson there? What good does it serve to create 60 years worth of people who feel deeply wronged and powerless? The whirlwind will be reaped.

Jeff Lebowski · 05-21-2008, 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Isn't there a lesson there? What good does it serve to create 60 years worth of people who feel deeply wronged and powerless? The whirlwind will be reaped.

Imagine a generation of people (two generations) having lived their entire lives in refugee camps. Unwanted by the Jordanians, unable to return to their land and homes in Israel, and treated like shit in the occupied territories. And people wonder why they are unhappy. It's an awful mess.

Tex · 05-21-2008, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Imagine a generation of people (two generations) having lived their entire lives in refugee camps. Unwanted by the Jordanians, unable to return to their land and homes in Israel, and treated like shit in the occupied territories. And people wonder why they are unhappy. It's an awful mess.

Don't forget a terrorist playboy for a leader.

Sleeping in EQ · 05-21-2008, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

You are correct. I should have posted TIC. But I do believe neither side wants this to end.

I appreciate the info about this. I now understand more why my Dad thought Truman was a blockhead.

I was never really into studying about the happenings in the Middle East, but with all that is going on, I've decided that I should get more up to date about it. I'm not so much pro-Israel as I am lukewarm about the Palestinian right of return. As far as I'm concerned, they can have it, but I'll admit that I don't lose sleep worrying about either side.

The more I've learned of Truman, the less I've liked him.

galapagos · 05-22-2008, 08:24 AM

hi, yes I am here... MudCoug, thanks for contacting me..I am israeli citizen for 8 years now and just got back from the states.
Jeff you're making a good point and an educated one. You also have to keep in mind that those palestinians that live in Jordan don't really want to come back to poverty and live under Hisballah. Those who live in Gaza strip also dont wanna live there, they'd rather go live in Egypt but guess what? Egypt DOESN'T want them! No arab country wants them. only Iran and Lebanon help them with money and why? Cos they want to destroy Israel. Iran and Lebanon do not send money for food and clothes but for weapons. I do agree that Palestine needs their own state, but these guys demand too much(Jerusalem, Haifa, Jaffo) If you will track historical documents and agreements between palestinians and israelis, palestinians always said:"LA"(means no in arabic) the consequences was that PALESTINIANS started the war and after they lost it they suffered the aftermath(less land etc). Our current political leader is weak(Olmart), if Bibi Natanyahu will become a prime minister(which I hope will happen) he'll bring back the patriotic spirit to israelis and will deal with Hisbollah the way they deserve..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Imagine a generation of people (two generations) having lived their entire lives in refugee camps. Unwanted by the Jordanians, unable to return to their land and homes in Israel, and treated like shit in the occupied territories. And people wonder why they are unhappy. It's an awful mess.

Jeff Lebowski · 05-22-2008, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galapagos

hi, yes I am here... MudCoug, thanks for contacting me..I am israeli citizen for 8 years now and just got back from the states.
Jeff you're making a good point and an educated one. You also have to keep in mind that those palestinians that live in Jordan don't really want to come back to poverty and live under Hisballah. Those who live in Gaza strip also dont wanna live there, they'd rather go live in Egypt but guess what? Egypt DOESN'T want them! No arab country wants them. only Iran and Lebanon help them with money and why? Cos they want to destroy Israel. Iran and Lebanon do not send money for food and clothes but for weapons. I do agree that Palestine needs their own state, but these guys demand too much(Jerusalem, Haifa, Jaffo) If you will track historical documents and agreements between palestinians and israelis, palestinians always said:"LA"(means no in arabic) the consequences was that PALESTINIANS started the war and after they lost it they suffered the aftermath(less land etc). Our current political leader is weak(Olmart), if Bibi Natanyahu will become a prime minister(which I hope will happen) he'll bring back the patriotic spirit to israelis and will deal with Hisbollah the way they deserve..

Great to have you here, galapagos.

I suppose "demanding too much" is in the eye of the beholder. I thought what they were offered last time around (very little autonomy, swiss cheese territories, etc.) was a joke. I couldn't really blame them for saying no.

So what would you like to see happen? What is your grand vision of what you would like to see Natanyahu do?

05-21-2008, 03:58 AM	#94
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	one thing about this conflict--it has led me to believe that staying and fighting in Kirtland and Nauvoo would have been a disaster. Mormons would have won initially (like the Israelis) but in the longrun it would have been suffering and death for little cause.

05-21-2008, 04:09 AM	#95
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Also the lessons of Germany after WWI and Japan after WWII. Germany was treated poorly after WWI, leading to the rise of Hitler. Japan was treated with respect and given help, leading Japan to become an ally of the USA. A freaking ally. And then of course rebuilding in Germany after WWII led to Germany being an ally of Britain and the USA. Isn't there a lesson there? What good does it serve to create 60 years worth of people who feel deeply wronged and powerless? The whirlwind will be reaped.