It amazes me at how misunderstood - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

jay santos · 06-26-2007, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BYU71

I was not so concerned about the word as the idea I thought most members were of the arrogant attitude. I think it is the minority.

However, that minority can be pretty vocal and polarizing. I call them the "best and brightest go to BYU" group. However, I would understand someone else referring to them as pricks.

I wouldn't blame this on BYU or LDS in Utah. Growing up outside of Utah in a land where BYU was mostly hated by the ward members, that attitude of we have to be better than everyone else to prove the Mormon church is true was loud and clear.

Indy Coug · 06-26-2007, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay santos

I wouldn't blame this on BYU or LDS in Utah. Growing up outside of Utah in a land where BYU was mostly hated by the ward members, that attitude of we have to be better than everyone else to prove the Mormon church is true was loud and clear.

Another classic case of Santos hyperbole.

jay santos · 06-26-2007, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Another classic case of Santos hyperbole.

Explain.

Indy Coug · 06-26-2007, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay santos

Explain.

Quote:

...that attitude of we have to be better than everyone else to prove the Mormon church is true was loud and clear.

Do you really think that is an accurate characterization?

BYU71 · 06-26-2007, 03:52 PM

I have seen that amongst the members. That isn't so hard to believe. I think it is probably natural.

I think much of our culture and heritage comes from our past. Our ancestors were treated harshly. They had to band together. I think that us against them carried through generations. It is probably dissipating as the church has grown.

I think anyone growing up in Utah in the 50's and 60's would admit there was an element of don't associate with the gentiles, they will defile you.

BYU71 · 06-26-2007, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Another classic case of Santos hyperbole.

Why is it hyperbole, because he disagrees with you. Use this for your link as to why you are considered to take extreme positions.

Archaea · 06-26-2007, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BYU71

Why is it hyperbole, because he disagrees with you. Use this for your link as to why you are considered to take extreme positions.

Or a classic Indy hit and run technique.

Indy Coug · 06-26-2007, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BYU71

Why is it hyperbole, because he disagrees with you. Use this for your link as to why you are considered to take extreme positions.

EXTREME??? You've got to be kidding me!!! I have never heard any leader explicitly or implicitly counsel what Jay is claiming, nor have I gotten a general sense from the membership the attitude that Jay has tried to characterize.

Jay's characterization is extreme and grossly inaccurate, IMO.

jay santos · 06-26-2007, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

EXTREME??? You've got to be kidding me!!! I have never heard any leader explicitly or implicitly counsel what Jay is claiming, nor have I gotten a general sense from the membership the attitude that Jay has tried to characterize.

Jay's characterization is extreme and grossly inaccurate, IMO.

I've encountered it my whole life in the church inside and outside of Utah. We take a lot of pride in knowing our behavior is better than non-LDS: divorce statistics, teenage drinking, teenage sex, whatever. We're expected to be better and we believe we are. It reinforces our belief that the church is true. Being told that LDS temple marriage divorce rates are no better than avg US divorce rates (not saying they are, this is a hypothetical) would be just as damaging to a lot of LDS testimonies as an anti-Mormon proving a case against the Book of Abraham.

Tex · 06-26-2007, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay santos

I've encountered it my whole life in the church inside and outside of Utah. We take a lot of pride in knowing our behavior is better than non-LDS: divorce statistics, teenage drinking, teenage sex, whatever. We're expected to be better and we believe we are. It reinforces our belief that the church is true. Being told that LDS temple marriage divorce rates are no better than avg US divorce rates (not saying they are, this is a hypothetical) would be just as damaging to a lot of LDS testimonies as an anti-Mormon proving a case against the Book of Abraham.

While I have no problem with some self-reassurance that we're doing the right thing in abstaining from these behaviors, anyone who uses that fact to browbeat someone else is not in harmony with the teachings of the gospel, or of the church leaders.

I remember being stunned years ago at Ricks College when some of my college buddies from Utah explained how some of their parents wouldn't let their children date non-members. In fact, one fine upstanding non-member kid was turned off to the church because of one parents' reaction to him asking their daughter to prom, or some other high school function.

That kind of behavior wouldn't have been possible where I grew up, and I think Hinckley, for one, has spoken out against it.

06-26-2007, 03:52 PM	#5
BYU71 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 5,084	I have seen that amongst the members. That isn't so hard to believe. I think it is probably natural. I think much of our culture and heritage comes from our past. Our ancestors were treated harshly. They had to band together. I think that us against them carried through generations. It is probably dissipating as the church has grown. I think anyone growing up in Utah in the 50's and 60's would admit there was an element of don't associate with the gentiles, they will defile you.