I've thought long and hard about Prop. 8

[exUte]

Originally Posted by Black Diamond Bay

I was trying to understand where you're coming from on this one, but if you can't participate in those discussions without resorting to personal attacks, then maybe it's you, and not I, that shouldn't be posting.

angles, we would only have half as many posts.

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by Black Diamond Bay

Each of us has to face the matter—either the Church is true, or it is a fraud. There is no middle ground. It is the Church and kingdom of God, or it is nothing.

I must just have my head completely up my ass on this one, but I flat out don't believe that thar statement.

Yes, the church is either the one church on the earth which has been delegated the keys to divine power and authority or it is not. This much I do agree with. It is what it claims, or it is not.

But assuming that it is what it claims to be, does that mean there is no middle ground as to whether a particular policy, position or teaching is either directly from Jesus Christ or it is not? Really? Everything from Salt Lake is from the mouth of God, the only alternative being that the church is a fraud? I sure hope that isn't true. It sets up as a test a hurdle that not even the true church of God can clear: infallibility.

Someone help me pull my head out here. I wish we would stop saying things like this though. Why is it okay for Joseph to say that the Book of Mormon is the "most true book" (not perfect, but most true) and yet the church must either be perfect or false. No one believes this do they?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

BDB represents the views of 99% of active LDS.

That's funny. Do you have any idea how many callings from bishops are turned down?

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

I must just have my head completely up my ass on this one, but I flat out don't believe that thar statement.

Yes, the church is either the one church on the earth which has been delegated the keys to divine power and authority or it is not. This much I do agree with. It is what it claims, or it is not.

But assuming that it is what it claims to be, does that mean there is no middle ground as to whether a particular policy, position or teaching is either directly from Jesus Christ or it is not? Really? Everything from Salt Lake is from the mouth of God, the only alternative being that the church is a fraud? I sure hope that isn't true. It sets up as a test a hurdle that not even the true church of God can clear: infallibility.

Someone help me pull my head out here. I wish we would stop saying things like this though. Why is it okay for Joseph to say that the Book of Mormon is the "most true book" (not perfect, but most true) and yet the church must either be perfect or false. No one believes this do they?

Great post.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

I must just have my head completely up my ass on this one, but I flat out don't believe that thar statement.

Yes, the church is either the one church on the earth which has been delegated the keys to divine power and authority or it is not. This much I do agree with. It is what it claims, or it is not.

But assuming that it is what it claims to be, does that mean there is no middle ground as to whether a particular policy, position or teaching is either directly from Jesus Christ or it is not? Really? Everything from Salt Lake is from the mouth of God, the only alternative being that the church is a fraud? I sure hope that isn't true. It sets up as a test a hurdle that not even the true church of God can clear: infallibility.

Someone help me pull my head out here. I wish we would stop saying things like this though. Why is it okay for Joseph to say that the Book of Mormon is the "most true book" (not perfect, but most true) and yet the church must either be perfect or false. No one believes this do they?

I couldn't agree more. I cringed when he originally said it and I cringe each time I hear it. Not one of his better passages.

[YOhio]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

I couldn't agree more. I cringed when he originally said it and I cringe each time I hear it. Not one of his better passages.

Blame CS Lewis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis's_trilemma

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by YOhio

Blame CS Lewis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis's_trilemma

Somehow the same people defending the trilemma would argue that it does not apply to Joseph Smith.

Of course, assuming there is general agreement that Joseph taught correct moral principles, which not every Christian would agree with.

[BYU71]

I am catching up on the threads and came across the statement of "all or none" made by BDB.

I am not dissing her assertion, but just presenting a counter opinion.

My 26 year old has chosen not to immerse himself in the church. No mission, no active church attendance. On the other hand he hasn't become a SU, openly attacking the church at every chance he gets.

A couple of nights ago he said, even if the church isn't true, you can't argue with all the great principles it teaches. The church does good things for people and if you follow the "basics" you will be a good person.

I agreed and let it go at that. Should I have gone for the kill. That isn't enough son. Do you believe Joseph Smith is a prophet or not? Is President Monson in contact directly with God? Will you come to church, shave your beard, wear a white shirt and stop drinking diet coke? Choose today son. The church is either completely true or completely false. Make up your mind and quit sitting on the fence.

If you choose correctly I will buy you a ticket to fly to California and get involved in the Prop. 8 movement.

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by exUte

Shirley. you guys are wired tighter than a drum on this issue.

He's not wired tighter... and stop calling him shirley

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by BYU71

I am catching up on the threads and came across the statement of "all or none" made by BDB.

I am not dissing her assertion, but just presenting a counter opinion.

My 26 year old has chosen not to immerse himself in the church. No mission, no active church attendance. On the other hand he hasn't become a SU, openly attacking the church at every chance he gets.

A couple of nights ago he said, even if the church isn't true, you can't argue with all the great principles it teaches. The church does good things for people and if you follow the "basics" you will be a good person.

I agreed and let it go at that. Should I have gone for the kill. That isn't enough son. Do you believe Joseph Smith is a prophet or not? Is President Monson in contact directly with God? Will you come to church, shave your beard, wear a white shirt and stop drinking diet coke? Choose today son. The church is either completely true or completely false. Make up your mind and quit sitting on the fence.

If you choose correctly I will buy you a ticket to fly to California and get involved in the Prop. 8 movement.

I think you did the right thing.

Can I request a different plane ticket? I am already in California.