A question regarding the 40 days and 40 Nights Fast of Jesus

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by All-American

It is forty, and it means forty, just like "myriad" means thousand. The idea here being cited I have actually heard before, that they would say "forty" days when they meant "many." "Myriad" similarly means "thousand", but can just as easily mean "countless."

My understanding, anyway.

Where could we research that?

I get the idea, it sounds like a colloquial when my kids say, "it costs millions."

[SeattleUte]

It's simply and allusion to the Israelites' forty year sojourn in the desert/Sinai. No more no less. The NT is full of these of course. It's a little game the gospels' authors played, also such intertexuality is commonplace in our culture.

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

It's simply and allusion to the Israelites' forty year sojourn in the desert/Sinai. No more no less. The NT is full of these of course. It's a little game the gospels' authors played, also such intertexuality is commonplace in our culture.

I hadn't considered that one before

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death

I hadn't considered that one before

It's a good insight, and makes a lot of sense.

[Spaz]

Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death

I'm not saying there has to be I was just wondering why we don't have one.

we get baptized to follow christ. We get the gift of the holy ghost as the ritual associated with the Dove ascending after his baptism. We take the sacrament as the ritual associated with his sacrifice. We have the endowment as the ritual associated with the mount of transfiguration. Yet with his 40 days spriitual awakening we have no ritual associated with it. It just seems rather odd.

I think the issue here is one of correlation. You're trying to correlate his 40-days fast with an identical feat performed today. The ceremonies/ordinances you cited don't correlate that perfectly (with the possible exception of baptism). Similarly, the law of the fast correlates roughly to the 40 days fast of Christ.

Consider for a second - it would literally take a miracle to fast (as we currently understand it, i.e. no food or drink at all) for 40 days & nights & live. Therefore, the best correlation for common practice is a 24-hour fast.

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

It's simply and allusion to the Israelites' forty year sojourn in the desert/Sinai. No more no less. The NT is full of these of course. It's a little game the gospels' authors played, also such intertexuality is commonplace in our culture.

still there is usually a ritual to go along with that... the catholics have their lent ... why don't we have something similar

[TripletDaddy]

What is the significance of 40? The Jesus account is not a unique reference. Even a quick cross check shows various references to 40 days and 40 nights.

1. Jesus fasting (Mark)
2. Israelites searching Canaan for 40 days (Numbers)
3. Moses on the mount for 40 days and nights (Exodus)
4. Elijah fasting for 40 days (1 Kings)
5. A 40 day purification for a women who has just given birth (leviticus).
6. Psalm 40.....main themes include patience and offering ourselves as a sacrifice, instead of traditional burnt offerings.
7. For 40 days and 40 nights, the law was on Billy Jean's side (Thriller, Side 2)

Has anyone else already noticed this?

For the first time, I can legitimately ask Solon, Chapel Hill, and AA to chime in. And Archaea!

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

It's simply and allusion to the Israelites' forty year sojourn in the desert/Sinai. No more no less. The NT is full of these of course. It's a little game the gospels' authors played, also such intertexuality is commonplace in our culture.

I wondered if it were possible that the reference to fasting could mirror the Ramadan fast, wherein meals were simply consumed before dawn and after dusk?

But that would not explain the claim of fasting 40 days AND 40 nights.

[SeattleUte]

I posted this a while ago summarizing some of the parallels:

I agree the Gospels are derivative of the Old Testament in much the same way. The anonymous authors of the Gospels made Jesus the heir apparent to the throne of David, as he was of David's lineage. The anonymous authors made Jesus the fulfillment of all Jewish prophetic expectation. They made Jesus the new and greater Moses. The life of Jesus these anonymous authors adaped from the life of Moses. Moses’ mother hid him in the bulrushes of the River Nile because Pharaoh decreed all Jewish male babies be executed at birth. Phoroah's daughter, bathing in the Nile, found Moses and spared him. So too did the Gospels' creators make Jesus’ birth occur in a manger, in the simplest, most rustic circumstances imaginable, the infant amid hay, in a manger, a place for animals, like bulrushes. Likewise, did the Gospels' creators make Herod, deceived by the Wise Men who had visited and paid respects to the baby Jesus, send his soldiers to Bethlehem with orders to slay every Jewish boy under two years of age.

Just as Moses came out of Egypt led by a vision, so too did the anonymous creators of the Gospels write that Jesus was brought out of Egypt led by a dream. Moses led the Children of Israel through the divided waters of the Red Sea, emerging from the waters with a new purpose and destiny, rending any ties with the past, never to be the same. So too does Jesus emerge from His baptism in the Jordan River with a new a new vocation, a new calling, leaving his past behind, never to be the same.

From the Red Sea, the Children of Israel sojourned in the wilderness, for forty years, and there struggled with the meaning of their new found destiny as God's elect. So too ddid the creators of the Gospels make Jesus go from the waters of the Jordan River to the wilderness, where He remains for forty days, and struggles with the meaning of His new found destiny--the Chosen One, the Messiah of God. Moses gave the Law, the Books of Moses. God spoke through Moses on a mountain and thereby He gave the sacred Law to the Children of Israel, and thereby made a covenant with his people. So too did the Gospels' creators make Jesus give the law, and also on a mountain, the Sermon on the Mount. So too does Jesus make a covenant of salvation with all those who accepted His sacrifice by baptism for the remission of sins.

Just as Moses led the Children of Israel through the wilderness, with the promise of a new homeland, so too does Jesus lead an exodus, from sin, promising the Kingdom of God. In the cosmology of the creators of the Gospels, Moses and Jesus alike pass through fear, frustration, doubt, rejection, and ultimately death. Just as Moses fed the Children of Isreal with manna from heaven, Jesus feeds bread to the five thousand. The anonymous creators of the Gospels made Jesus, as Moses, the bread of life.

Of course, I didn't make any of this up. For five hundred years people have seen these parallels as either evidence of the Gospels' divinity or that they were created by men. The Book of Mormon consciously parallels the Pentateuch as well as does Joseph's own autobiography and Mormonism's early history. Thus we see the awesome power of myth to regenerate itself and raise whole societies.

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

I posted this a while ago summarizing some of the parallels:

I agree the Gospels are derivative of the Old Testament in much the same way. The anonymous authors of the Gospels made Jesus the heir apparent to the throne of David, as he was of David's lineage. The anonymous authors made Jesus the fulfillment of all Jewish prophetic expectation. They made Jesus the new and greater Moses. The life of Jesus these anonymous authors adaped from the life of Moses. Moses’ mother hid him in the bulrushes of the River Nile because Pharaoh decreed all Jewish male babies be executed at birth. Phoroah's daughter, bathing in the Nile, found Moses and spared him. So too did the Gospels' creators make Jesus’ birth occur in a manger, in the simplest, most rustic circumstances imaginable, the infant amid hay, in a manger, a place for animals, like bulrushes. Likewise, did the Gospels' creators make Herod, deceived by the Wise Men who had visited and paid respects to the baby Jesus, send his soldiers to Bethlehem with orders to slay every Jewish boy under two years of age.

Just as Moses came out of Egypt led by a vision, so too did the anonymous creators of the Gospels write that Jesus was brought out of Egypt led by a dream. Moses led the Children of Israel through the divided waters of the Red Sea, emerging from the waters with a new purpose and destiny, rending any ties with the past, never to be the same. So too does Jesus emerge from His baptism in the Jordan River with a new a new vocation, a new calling, leaving his past behind, never to be the same.

From the Red Sea, the Children of Israel sojourned in the wilderness, for forty years, and there struggled with the meaning of their new found destiny as God's elect. So too ddid the creators of the Gospels make Jesus go from the waters of the Jordan River to the wilderness, where He remains for forty days, and struggles with the meaning of His new found destiny--the Chosen One, the Messiah of God. Moses gave the Law, the Books of Moses. God spoke through Moses on a mountain and thereby He gave the sacred Law to the Children of Israel, and thereby made a covenant with his people. So too did the Gospels' creators make Jesus give the law, and also on a mountain, the Sermon on the Mount. So too does Jesus make a covenant of salvation with all those who accepted His sacrifice by baptism for the remission of sins.

Just as Moses led the Children of Israel through the wilderness, with the promise of a new homeland, so too does Jesus lead an exodus, from sin, promising the Kingdom of God. In the cosmology of the creators of the Gospels, Moses and Jesus alike pass through fear, frustration, doubt, rejection, and ultimately death. Just as Moses fed the Children of Isreal with manna from heaven, Jesus feeds bread to the five thousand. The anonymous creators of the Gospels made Jesus, as Moses, the bread of life.

Of course, I didn't make any of this up. For five hundred years people have seen these parallels as either evidence of the Gospels' divinity or that they were created by men. The Book of Mormon consciously parallels the Pentateuch as well as does Joseph's own autobiography and Mormonism's early history. Thus we see the awesome power of myth to regenerate itself and raise whole societies.

this is probably your finest post in the religion section