Unfrigginbelievable!

[MikeWaters]

Adam, maybe you will learn what it feels like to have a child taken away from you through death or other means. Then you might understand a little bit more.

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96

That is what I don't get with people. They are going to foster care folks and I am convinced nobody could find me any cases of abuse of any child ever in foster care.

Adam, any time the government abuses people it is always more disgusting than what Warren Jeffs did. Those of us who love freedom and want to have our freedoms protected so we can teach our children about the Book of Mormon should all agree.

Okay, I'm ready to be persuaded.

Everyone keeps talking about this abuse under the law and abuse of the constitution so lets hear it. Someone argue to me why one of the following is true:

1. The Texas statute governing this situation has not been followed.
2. The Texas statute is unconstitutional on its face.
3. The Texas statute is unconstitutional as applied.

I'd like to see the legal basis for what so many think is self evident. Since even the ACLU couldn't immediately articulate why specifically something was wrong with all this it ought to be interesting.

Maybe there is a legal brief on this issue out there that I haven't seen that everyone else has. Point me to it and I'll shut up.

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by Adam

But to automatically side with those with a systematic racist, sexist and child-abusing belief system over the Texas authorities seems pretty paranoid to me. Maybe your line of thinking explains Bo Gritz's cult-hero status among so many Mormons. I just don't get it.

I feel like I'm going to get a bad reputation for siding with Adam repeatedly, but he is exactly right here. Is distrust of the government really that ingrained in LDS culture? I'll wait for the reply to my other post, but my guess right now is that no one can even articulate anything other than their sensibilities (ignorant of the law) have been offended.

Maybe I am off in outer space on this, but I do think that some of you are going to be embarrassed about the side of this issue you chose with the benefit of hindsight.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

Okay, I'm ready to be persuaded.

Everyone keeps talking about this abuse under the law and abuse of the constitution so lets hear it. Someone argue to me why one of the following is true:

1. The Texas statute governing this situation has not been followed.
2. The Texas statute is unconstitutional on its face.
3. The Texas statute is unconstitutional as applied.

I'd like to see the legal basis for what so many think is self evident. Since even the ACLU couldn't immediately articulate why specifically something was wrong with all this it ought to be interesting.

Maybe there is a legal brief on this issue out there that I haven't seen that everyone else has. Point me to it and I'll shut up.

why could all children's fate, given their different circumstances, be decided in toto in one hearing.

oh wait I already asked this and you suggested I supported Nambla. So I am not asking you. I am asking other people. Please do not answer.

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

why could all children's fate, given their different circumstances, be decided in toto in one hearing.

oh wait I already asked this and you suggested I supported Nambla. So I am not asking you. I am asking other people. Please do not answer.

Well Mike, I'm working from the assumption that the prosecutors, DCS and judge haven't all conspired to circumvent the established process. The burden is on you to tell me why doing it the way they did it is inappropriate, not on me to tell you why it is not.

And yes, you ought to be ashamed of yourself that your sympathy for pedophiles would lead you to the silly assumption you have made. And that is all it is, an assumption.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

Well Mike, I'm working from the assumption that the prosecutors, DCS and judge haven't all conspired to circumvent the established process. The burden is on you to tell me why doing it the way they did it is inappropriate, not on me to tell you why it is not.

And yes, you ought to be ashamed of yourself that your sympathy for pedophiles would lead you to the silly assumption you have made. And that is all it is, an assumption.

You are misguided. We cannot be good friends as we once were.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

Okay, I'm ready to be persuaded.

Everyone keeps talking about this abuse under the law and abuse of the constitution so lets hear it. Someone argue to me why one of the following is true:

1. The Texas statute governing this situation has not been followed.
2. The Texas statute is unconstitutional on its face.
3. The Texas statute is unconstitutional as applied.

I'd like to see the legal basis for what so many think is self evident. Since even the ACLU couldn't immediately articulate why specifically something was wrong with all this it ought to be interesting.

Maybe there is a legal brief on this issue out there that I haven't seen that everyone else has. Point me to it and I'll shut up.

How about due process? If Texas was interested in this little thing that's mentioned in the US Constitution, why, as Mike pointed out, would it have been done as one single hearing rather than a case by case situation?

I'm asking this as a non-lawyer. I hate what Jeffs stands for, but I don't see how the state of Texas can do this.

And why do feel you don't need to explain your belief about how it went down? You said it's ok that it happened this way. Why?

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

Okay, I'm ready to be persuaded.

Everyone keeps talking about this abuse under the law and abuse of the constitution so lets hear it. Someone argue to me why one of the following is true:

1. The Texas statute governing this situation has not been followed.
2. The Texas statute is unconstitutional on its face.
3. The Texas statute is unconstitutional as applied.

I'd like to see the legal basis for what so many think is self evident. Since even the ACLU couldn't immediately articulate why specifically something was wrong with all this it ought to be interesting.

Maybe there is a legal brief on this issue out there that I haven't seen that everyone else has. Point me to it and I'll shut up.

Nobody here can do what you are asking. Nevertheless those terms will continue to be used...largely by exUte.

[TripletDaddy]

Just out curiosity, for those that are still up in arms, how many have actually read the affidavit in support of emergency child protection? My guess is about zero, or next to zero.

If you read it, you will see it went down pretty much as already discussed here.....warrant properly served and executed, they arrive on the compound, observe minors pregnant or with kids (which means on its face that stat rape has occurred...en mass), they start interviewing people, stonewalling occurs, and even worse...some people cannot or will not even identify their own parents.

What is the state supposed to do? leave? do nothing? If the FLDS want to hurry things along, dont hide out in the temple and refuse to cooperate by providing information when CPS is interviewing you about your kid.

This whole situation is a mess, and the FLDS have not helped it at all.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive...081texas1.html

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

Just out curiosity, for those that are still up in arms, how many have actually read the affidavit in support of emergency child protection? My guess is about zero, or next to zero.

If you read it, you will see it went down pretty much as already discussed here.....warrant properly served and executed, they arrive on the compound, observe minors pregnant or with kids (which means on its face that stat rape has occurred...en mass), they start interviewing people, stonewalling occurs, and even worse...some people cannot or will not even identify their own parents.

What is the state supposed to do? leave? do nothing? If the FLDS want to hurry things along, dont hide out in the temple and refuse to cooperate by providing information when CPS is interviewing you about your kid.

This whole situation is a mess, and the FLDS have not helped it at all.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive...081texas1.html

Oh great. Now I've got YOU agreeing with me. ;-)