Uninsured, a question...

[RedHeadGal]

Originally Posted by Clark Addison

How many is many? I'm sure that there are people in both camps (poor vs. choice), but are 80% of the uninsured there because they have no choice? Or are 80% playing the odds. I really don't know the answer to this. Do you, or are you forming your opinions solely through anecdotal evidence?

All he asked for is anecdote, intending, it seems to help bolster conclusions already formed.

And should we let the people bear the risk for their children, too?

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Ma'ake

Healthcare is one basic requirement in life that shouldn't be relegated to the nuanced & pressured world of credit-worthiness and punitive interest rates. We don't have immigrants (legal or otherwise) having to finance their children's education.

When did it become such? By 1960, few people believed this.

In the animal kingdom is it such?

Why do you believe this? I don't believe this tenet.

[Ma'ake]

Originally Posted by Archaea

(re "Healthcare is one basic requirement in life")

When did it become such? By 1960, few people believed this.

In the animal kingdom is it such?

Why do you believe this? I don't believe this tenet.

My friend, the same thing can be said for polio vaccine, clean drinking water, EPA regulations against toxic pollution, etc. A hundred years ago anyone who suggested that the public should pay for dental care for impoverished children would have been laughed out of town. Today the issue appears differently.

Where did these expectations come from?

There is no inalienable right to education, yet society has decided it is a wise investment, worthy of taxation. Our collective humanity - manifest by public support of assistance to others - seems to expand with time, and as economic & technological advances facilitate.

First some caveman probably had the idea that others don't deserve being beaned on the head with a club without cause, and the next thing you know people are saying that young children have the "right" to not be infected with measles, or "rubella" or the plague, if such a prevention could be paid for by taxes.

Where will this progression end? Good question, but I think the rugged individualism in our culture will help Americans avoid erring on the side of charity. (This isn't necessarily a criticism.)

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by Ma'ake

My friend, the same thing can be said for polio vaccine, clean drinking water, EPA regulations against toxic pollution, etc. A hundred years ago anyone who suggested that the public should pay for dental care for impoverished children would have been laughed out of town. Today the issue appears differently.

Where did these expectations come from?

There is no inalienable right to education, yet society has decided it is a wise investment, worthy of taxation. Our collective humanity - manifest by public support of assistance to others - seems to expand with time, and as economic & technological advances facilitate.

First some caveman probably had the idea that others don't deserve being beaned on the head with a club without cause, and the next thing you know people are saying that young children have the "right" to not be infected with measles, or "rubella" or the plague, if such a prevention could be paid for by taxes.

Where will this progression end? Good question, but I think the rugged individualism in our culture will help Americans avoid erring on the side of charity. (This isn't necessarily a criticism.)

No question it is desirable. Only question is whether it is affordable.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Ma'ake

My friend, the same thing can be said for polio vaccine, clean drinking water, EPA regulations against toxic pollution, etc. A hundred years ago anyone who suggested that the public should pay for dental care for impoverished children would have been laughed out of town. Today the issue appears differently.

Where did these expectations come from?

There is no inalienable right to education, yet society has decided it is a wise investment, worthy of taxation. Our collective humanity - manifest by public support of assistance to others - seems to expand with time, and as economic & technological advances facilitate.

First some caveman probably had the idea that others don't deserve being beaned on the head with a club without cause, and the next thing you know people are saying that young children have the "right" to not be infected with measles, or "rubella" or the plague, if such a prevention could be paid for by taxes.

Where will this progression end? Good question, but I think the rugged individualism in our culture will help Americans avoid erring on the side of charity. (This isn't necessarily a criticism.)

Would it be nice if everybody could eat caviar, eat at Chez Maxim's, have two hundred dollar haircuts? I suppose so.

It's not an inalienable right and it's not affordable.

Basic public education makes for a more educated and productive workforce.

If you want to promote the public welfare through vaccines, that makes sense.

If you want unaffordable health care for everyone, then you're crazy and wish for us to go broke.

[Ma'ake]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Would it be nice if everybody could eat caviar, eat at Chez Maxim's, have two hundred dollar haircuts? I suppose so.

It's not an inalienable right and it's not affordable.

Basic public education makes for a more educated and productive workforce.

If you want to promote the public welfare through vaccines, that makes sense.

If you want unaffordable health care for everyone, then you're crazy and wish for us to go broke.

Isn't *base* level, preventive healthcare more in line with vaccine & education, in terms of societal benefit? (Shouldn't social policy be about intelligent investment in our people?)

A big chunk of the affordability problem has to do with the maintenance of distributed redundant bureaucracies to support health insurance claim processing (some $220B per annum), Big Pharma fleecing the American consumer - think Viagra ads - while claiming new drugs cost $1B to develop, excessive malpractice litigation, etc.

Force Big Pharma to share R&D costs with other countries, clean up the grotesque waste in the shell game known as health insurance, some legal reform & I think the affordability issue isn't so daunting.

But you're right, there are big $$ at stake and an intelligent program is needed to contain the costs. Just like was done with welfare reform, this can't be a pure & endless entitlements program. There needs to be personal incentives toward better health. The lower you "score" on a health assessment, the higher your co-pays. Fitness tests, cholesterol tests, test for nicotine, etc. Society shouldn't have to pay for people's poor health habits (like we do right now).

(Yeah, I know there are obstacles to implementing this type of program, but the current system is rife with big problems and imbalances.)

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by Ma'ake

(Yeah, I know there are obstacles to implementing this type of program, but the current system is rife with big problems and imbalances.)

Exactly, so the best course of action is to do nothing ... why won't this issue go away? [fingers in ears] I'm not listening, no I can't hear you; blah blah blah ... [fingers crossed, huddled in the fetal position on the sofa muttering] It's not my problem, in fact it's not a problem -really, I mean ....

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by tooblue

Exactly, so the best course of action is to do nothing ... why won't this issue go away? [fingers in ears] I'm not listening, no I can't hear you; blah blah blah ... [fingers crossed, huddled in the fetal position on the sofa muttering] It's not my problem, in fact it's not a problem -really, I mean ....

Your accusations are that we aren't doing anything for those that are uninsured. This is simply not true. Every Hospital in America gives out large amounts of charity care every year. In fact, most to the catholic systems in place have caring for the poor as central to their mission. No one is dying in the street, if you need care you can get it. no ER is sending patients away due to lack of insurance.

there are vaccination programs at the city,county and state levels which are low cost if not free. There are also free clinics at the city, county and state levels for the uninsured. Every employed person in the USA has 15% of their salary (7.5 from the employee and 7.5 from company) to pay for Medicaid. 1.9% of every dollar one earns goes to Medicare... meaning everyone over 65 get great medical coverage. Any person with a little gumption who doesn't have insurance can find some sort of help to offset their issues. As a last resort Even if one rang up huge medical bills they could file for bankruptcy

Are their things that need to be addressed? certainly.... Is changing our system to Canada's the way to do it.? Not unless we want to be taxed a lot more and have the government ration our health care.

Stop spewing the crap about how bad the system is here in america. For all its warts (which I agree they are there) its still the best system in the world for the average person.