"Mothers Who Know": the Modern Offense Translation

[Mrs. Funk]

Originally Posted by Tex

Anymore than dealing with the issues of homosexuality, abortion, adult (31+) singles, divorcees, drug addiction, etc.?

It seems to me if you're going to use the "old guy" defense for your positions, you can't avoid that being broadened to a whole host of topics they are ostensibly unable to effectively address.

Well, sure. And perhaps all of those other topics combined affect 50% of the church. But at a basal level, 50% of the church is effectively in an identity crisis over their basic roles as women in the church. I don't know that other issues affect the church so broadly at the end of the day.

[NorCal Cat]

Originally Posted by BYU71

Maybe you can take heart in this. If you were the daughter of a GA, you might have been told to ignore what was said in conference.

I know for a fact a son of one of the Apostles was told to ignore the counsel in conference that young men not put off marriage. He told his son to get an education before marrying.

That's what I did, and that's what I will counsel my sons to do also. I never understood the desire to get married while still in school, let alone having kids also. I guess I am in good company if this Apostle is telling his son the same thing. I wish this same message would be conveyed to the Church as a whole, instead of a select few, like this Apostle's son.

[Spaz]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

I gave a fathers day talk maybe three years ago. I had written what I thought was a really good talk about how important fathers are, what good fathers do, examples of great men in my life ,etc etc.

After I had written it and set it down I had the idea strike me very strongly that there were going to be people in the congregation who lost their dad's when they were little, who had dads who were abusive or a least not good guys and who, generally, had experiences that were very different than the ideal father I had prepared to talk about.

I didn't change anything I had written, but I added one last section addresses specifically to that last group. 90% of the comments I received after the talk were from people in that last group who had felt touched by the message directed to them.

That is not a "ooh look at UtahDan" story. It is just meant to highlight that regardless of whether you have a hypersensitive audience and regardless of whether anyone would be justified in taking offense, if you see offense and hurt feelings on the horizon, it isn't very hard to soften or modify the message in a way that will uplift everyone (or at least almost). I recognize that sometimes the gospel is a sword that divides brother from brother or husband from wife, but I think that is primarily a metaphoric devise. I think most of the time the goal is uplift and show love.

I understand why some are focused on the hypersensitivity of others on this issue. I get that part of it and I don't think I have ever been offended by anything said over the pulpit (read here that I have very little capacity for offense). That said, neither at church nor really anywhere in life have I ever found myself standing on the principle that an offended party is overreacting. I have often found myself saying that I intended no offense and softening the delivery next time around.

To the extent that someone gives offense (for whatever reason) and feels like the yelp they hear is evidence that they are right to give it...lets just say I think that is the wrong conclusion to draw.

I have nothing to argue with regarding this post. Excellent post UtahDan.

[NorCal Cat]

Originally Posted by ERCougar

Wow. I honestly can't imagine someone would have the nerve to discuss that, even if they did think it. I guess you have to respect their courage?

Honest question: Are you new to the Church? If not, I'm not sure why this would come as such a shock to you. I don't know how many times I have heard similar stories. And I rarely talk to anyone about anything in our ward. I usually hear of such stories from my wife.

[ERCougar]

Originally Posted by BYU71

I have been told more than once that my not remarrying is a selfish act on my part. HUH, how can it be a selfish act on my part. Was I put on earth to take care of someone. I mean someone who says that can't be thinking anything else. Of course when I ask them that they gulp and of course that isn't what they meant.

One of the classic ones was that I was being selfish because I wasn't preparing to have kids in the hereafter with someone. LOL

Are people ACTUALLY saying these things? Or are you reading into it a little?

Seriously, I wish people would say these things at our ward. It would be much more fun to go to church.

[ERCougar]

Originally Posted by NorCal Cat

Honest question: Are you new to the Church? If not, I'm not sure why this would come as such a shock to you. I don't know how many times I have heard similar stories. And I rarely talk to anyone about anything in our ward. I usually hear of such stories from my wife.

No...I've grown up in it. And I do hear my share of goofy things at Church. It's just that they're generally not specifically directed at someone in a one-on-one setting. Behind the back, I'll give you. But not to their face.

Or sometimes it's a case where someone is misreading the message or applying something to them that's not intended. (Not saying that's the case with Mrs Funk or BYU 71). But to directly call someone out? I haven't seen that very much.

[ERCougar]

Originally Posted by NorCal Cat

That's what I did, and that's what I will counsel my sons to do also. I never understood the desire to get married while still in school, let alone having kids also. I guess I am in good company if this Apostle is telling his son the same thing. I wish this same message would be conveyed to the Church as a whole, instead of a select few, like this Apostle's son.

I'm with you on this one. Sons and daughters. I think completing completing a bachelor's degree has to come first, or I'll have a hard time supporting the marriage.

And I do get irritated when counsel is given to the contrary.

[NorCal Cat]

Originally Posted by Mrs. Funk

Well, if "selfish" is now being defined as doing something, anything that isn't related to the upbringing and rearing of children, I think all of us, including men, are in trouble.

Under that definition, sex is "selfish," because it takes time away from helping with math homework.

Dates are out... because you should be there for your child's every whim.

Reading? Expanding your mind? Thinking about things other than your own limited existence? APPALLING!

Oh man, reminds me of the discussion we had in EQ last week. We talked about the leadership meeting a couple weeks ago, and one of the topics from the meeting was "put family first." We talked about what this means. Of course the topic of personal hobbies came up. I honestly think some people believe that once you are married, that you are being "selfish" if you do ANYTHING for yourself.

For example, sometimes when people find out that I actually go surfing with a buddy, people seem to be perplexed at the idea of this, and why in the world my wife "lets" me do such a thing.

[Spaz]

Originally Posted by NorCal Cat

Are you that naive, or just pretending? How do you know that's what she "meant.?" I am going by what she actually SAID. And if you don't think there really are people in the church that really do think "mothers who know" will have all their sons dressed and groomed like that, you are mistaken.

Actually, you're going on what you THINK she meant. You're certainly NOT going from what she actually said, or you'd realize that her statements were NOT exclusionary, and therefore don't logically lead directly to "if you DON'T do this, then you're NOT a good mother."

At NO POINT in her talk did she say that what she was describing was the only way to be a good mother.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Mrs. Funk

Well, sure. And perhaps all of those other topics combined affect 50% of the church. But at a basal level, 50% of the church is effectively in an identity crisis over their basic roles as women in the church. I don't know that other issues affect the church so broadly at the end of the day.

50% of the church is effectively in an identity crisis? Don't you think that's overstating the matter a little? I know a lot of Mormon women, and I don't think any of them are in an "identity crisis." Granted it's a small sample size, but come on ...

As to the topics themselves, I think it's interesting how quick you are to dismiss their ability to deal with any of them. Did the Lord just flub when he set up this system? What do you see as being the necessary step to fix it? Shall we call a black guy, a homosexual, and a woman as our next three apostles?

Boy wouldn't this place LOVE that.

Originally Posted by ERCougar

Are people ACTUALLY saying these things? Or are you reading into it a little?

Seriously, I wish people would say these things at our ward. It would be much more fun to go to church.

Attend SoonerCoug's ward.