Correlating the mass of information

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by Archaea

He had remarkable abilities and he was a visionary that others believed in and followed. I cannot judge his intellect, but his origins were simple and he had common failings.

Yes. I see what you mean.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by Archaea

He had remarkable abilities and he was a visionary that others believed in and followed. I cannot judge his intellect, but his origins were simple and he had common failings.

You just can't read the BOM or D&C without coming to one of 3 conclusions.

1) The writings are indeed inspiration from God.

2) JS was one of the most brilliant writers in History at a very young age.

3) Someone else of great intellect did the writing and JS took credit.

Number 2 and 3 just don't seem plausible. Both books looked at outside of religion would be two of the great self help books ever written. I just don't think some unlearned man comes up with the advice on excercising unrighteous dominion. The info. there is classic advice on how to manage.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by BYU71

You just can't read the BOM or D&C without coming to one of 3 conclusions.

1) The writings are indeed inspiration from God.

2) JS was one of the most brilliant writers in History at a very young age.

3) Someone else of great intellect did the writing and JS took credit.

Number 2 and 3 just don't seem plausible. Both books looked at outside of religion would be two of the great self help books ever written. I just don't think some unlearned man comes up with the advice on excercising unrighteous dominion. The info. there is classic advice on how to manage.

I like the Book of Mormon very much. It has doctrines laid out simply and easy to understand. Some of the narratives are quite compelling. However, simple people have written works throughout history. The BoM has helped cobble together my brand of faith.

I don't mean to argue with you on a matter of tender faith, but your rhetorical arguments are not logically compelled.

I wish we could have a class akin to higher biblical criticism of the BoM this year, but we will need to do that for ourselves.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by Archaea

I like the Book of Mormon very much. It has doctrines laid out simply and easy to understand. Some of the narratives are quite compelling. However, simple people have written works throughout history. The BoM has helped cobble together my brand of faith.

I don't mean to argue with you on a matter of tender faith, but your rhetorical arguments are not logically compelled.

I wish we could have a class akin to higher biblical criticism of the BoM this year, but we will need to do that for ourselves.

"rhetorical arguments are not logically compelled"? Could you say that in a more simpler way so that an old man can understand.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by BYU71

"rhetorical arguments are not logically compelled"? Could you say that in a more simpler way so that an old man can understand.

If one can formulate any other hypothesis, then your initial premise that it must be one of these three is false, and hence not a valid logical argument.

Another premise is that it is not a great work of literature but a badly cobbled together piece borrowing from works extant at the time, including the King James Bible. Not one I personally or necessarily ascribe to, but one that has been offered. Hence, your argument is not logical.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by Archaea

If one can formulate any other hypothesis, then your initial premise that it must be one of these three is false, and hence not a valid logical argument.

Another premise is that it is not a great work of literature but a badly cobbled together piece borrowing from works extant at the time, including the King James Bible. Not one I personally or necessarily ascribe to, but one that has been offered. Hence, your argument is not logical.

I guess I should have said, "I just can't read the BOM or D&C withouth coming to one of 3 conclusions.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by BYU71

I guess I should have said, "I just can't read the BOM or D&C withouth coming to one of 3 conclusions.

Yeah why didn't you post that.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Yeah why didn't you post that.

Because I forget to allow for the fact there are people who aren't as logical and intelligent as I am.

[Ma'ake]

Third option:

Joseph was clearly extraordinarily charmismatic, very bright, some say the American religious genius. Maybe he (technically) fabricated the BOM, et al, believing he was actually a prophet, doing the Lord's work, basically self-deceived(?) This explains money digging confidence, etc.

Though Joseph was human, he was also clearly inspired, even if perhaps not literally in communication with God, Jesus, Moroni, etc.

This would explain Kinderhook plates accounts, Papyri, et al, while explaining "inspired" nature of LDS scripture.

This would also explain fairly widespread resistance - others could sniff out the truth claims troubles, much doesn't stand the smell test.

This also explains modern problems with BOM story... it didn't literally occur.

explanation for/from the faithful - "Lord works in mysterious ways", larger truth explains Holy Ghost, etc.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Ma'ake

Third option:

Joseph was clearly extraordinarily charmismatic, very bright, some say the American religious genius. Maybe he (technically) fabricated the BOM, et al, believing he was actually a prophet, doing the Lord's work, basically self-deceived(?) This explains money digging confidence, etc.

Though Joseph was human, he was also clearly inspired, even if perhaps not literally in communication with God, Jesus, Moroni, etc.

This would explain Kinderhook plates accounts, Papyri, et al, while explaining "inspired" nature of LDS scripture.

This would also explain fairly widespread resistance - others could sniff out the truth claims troubles, much doesn't stand the smell test.

This also explains modern problems with BOM story... it didn't literally occur.

explanation for/from the faithful - "Lord works in mysterious ways", larger truth explains Holy Ghost, etc.

Because Kinderhook plates are cheesey, I dpn't put much stalk in them. I understand the argument but as soon as you invoke KH, you lose credibility. Have you ever really looked at them?