Interrogation Techniques

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by jay santos

Mike, here's where I'm coming from.

The question is not whether I would rape a 6 year old girl to save my family. That would entail brutalizing an innocent child. It also would entail my family living with the knowledge and guilt that the saving of their lives caused that horrible act. Would I do it? I don't know, but my gut feeling is that probably I wouldn't. Don't hang me for being indecisive because it's very difficult to process that decision.

The decision is whether to torture someone in a terrorist or war or possibly even criminal situation where someone is opposing you and has information that could save lives. In a war you kill people. You even kill innocent people. If you've made the commitment to go to war and kill, you've made the commitment to do some other dirty deeds along the way. The person with the information is a criminal or a war enemy. They are not the 6 year old innocent girl. They are the opposition and they have the ability to save themselves from torture and worse by offering up the information freely.

There are some tough ethical issues, but torturing in a terrorist or war situation is not really one for me. I doubt I could be the one personally to do it, but I wouldn't prohibit our government from doing it.

In a moral context, do not ask others to do what you are unwilling to do yourself.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I'm saying the Laban account is written by a man who was haunted by what he did, and felt he had to carefully justify his actions.

That's an awfully convenient historical revision, even if there is nothing to back it up.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

That's an awfully convenient historical revision, even if there is nothing to back it up.

Here's something to back it up:

Did Nephi ever include as much detail about an event as he did about killing Laban?

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

In a moral context, do not ask others to do what you are unwilling to do yourself.

Yeah, you're probably right, and so yeah I would do it.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Here's something to back it up:

Did Nephi ever include as much detail about an event as he did about killing Laban?

LOL. Give it up. I didn't say Nephi was happy about it, but he did it nonetheless because he was commanded by the Lord to do so, n'est pas?

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

LOL. Give it up. I didn't say Nephi was happy about it, but he did it nonetheless because he was commanded by the Lord to do so, n'est pas?

He said he was commanded to. That much we know.

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

He said he was commanded to. That much we know.

He's also sitting pretty right about now as well.

By the way Mike...in my original context of the thread I started...I didn't mention a thing about raping a 6 year old kid....YOU brought that into the equation and it had nothing to do with the intent of the original premise of the thread.

If you can tell me that in Guantanamo or in other secret jails that the other terrorists are being held in, inside of the United States and that they're bringing in 6 year old kids to rape them in front of the terrorists being held then I could understand where you're coming from.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

He said he was commanded to. That much we know.

IOW, he might not have, and therefore was a cold-blooded murderer who then, unlike David with Uriah, somehow managed to figure out how to get forgiveness from God fairly quickly so he could get revelation on finding food for his family in the wilderness, use the Liahona, have Divine zapping power and learned how build a ship for a trans-oceanic voyage?

Interesting.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

He's also sitting pretty right about now as well.

By the way Mike...in my original context of the thread I started...I didn't mention a thing about raping a 6 year old kid....YOU brought that into the equation and it had nothing to do with the intent of the original premise of the thread.

If you can tell me that in Guantanamo or in other secret jails that the other terrorists are being held in, inside of the United States and that they're bringing in 6 year old kids to rape them in front of the terrorists being held then I could understand where you're coming from.

The practice of harming a suspects loved one is one of the oldest tools in the bag. It happens all the time. usuallly not by law enforcement (though this happens as well). But by criminal elements such as mafia and drug cartels.

Would you harm a terrorists family in order to procure information that might save lives?

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

IOW, he might not have, and therefore was a cold-blooded murderer who then, unlike David with Uriah, somehow managed to figure out how to get forgiveness from God fairly quickly so he could get revelation on finding food for his family in the wilderness, use the Liahona, have Divine zapping power and learned how build a ship for a trans-oceanic voyage?

Interesting.

I recognize your view is the orthodox view, but is that the only possibility you can see from Mike's perspective. Although I don't know what to make of his interpretation, I find it interesting and wouldn't limit it, heterodox that is, to the argumentum ad absurdum that you are endeavoring to do.