Recording of Mission President Discouraging Elders from "Self Abuse"

[marsupial]

They aren't baptizing anyone because they're in France. No one gets baptized in France.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96

Out of curiosity, do you think the missionary program is failing and if so why?

Read Dan Stewart's Law of the Harvest and pre edict summary of the utter failings of our missionary program.

It may fail to proselyte the way we do, but it may help the proselyting missionaries.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by marsupial

They aren't baptizing anyone because they're in France. No one gets baptized in France.

Except for the Africans, per my brother and sister's experience in Paris. Not that it's much different in England and other European nations either.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Read Dan Stewart's Law of the Harvest and pre edict summary of the utter failings of our missionary program.

It may fail to proselyte the way we do, but it may help the proselyting missionaries.

I started reading it but came to realize it's 232 pages if you copy and paste it into Word.

[Jim Swarthout]

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96

Out of curiosity, do you think the missionary program is failing and if so why?

I wouldn't say it's failing, but I sure felt like I wasted a lot of my time on my mission engaged in counter-productive or less-productive activities. And I was in areas where tracting was not that common. I can't imagine having been in a mission where knocking doors for hours each day was the norm. I would have gone bananas. To me, that's a failing missionary program.

We had the Elders for dinner this week and they confirmed what I experienced -- that their time between 10 AM and 6 PM is a waste b/c people who are quality prospects are generally not at home during those hours.

Other than providing a fertile time for young men to develop a "testimony," what functions does the missionary program perform that could not be performed at the local level by members?

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by Jim Swarthout

I wouldn't say it's failing, but I sure felt like I wasted a lot of my time on my mission engaged in counter-productive or less-productive activities. And I was in areas where tracting was not that common. I can't imagine having been in a mission where knocking doors for hours each day was the norm. I would have gone bananas. To me, that's a failing missionary program.

We had the Elders for dinner this week and they confirmed what I experienced -- that their time between 10 AM and 6 PM is a waste b/c people who are quality prospects are generally not at home during those hours.

Other than providing a fertile time for young men to develop a "testimony," what functions does the missionary program perform that could not be performed at the local level by members?

I went to England and I tracted a lot. I actually enjoyed tracting because I thought it was like looking at the world in a fishbowl. I got a kick out of the reactions.

I saw a number of people join the Church, and I found these folks during all hours of the day. I thought that it was a worthwhile endeavor just for the purpose of watching the Church grow. I think my mission saw two new wards open during my two years. IIRC, most of the success came from the cold finding method and then once a unit began to see success from those methods the referrals usually came. I don't believe tracting is a waste of time if one has decent sales skills. However, I didn't expect too much success, as far as numbers go, from tracting so my enthusiasm for it is probably tempered because I thought the numbers that came were well worth the effort.

I think the endeavor of getting folks to change their religions is difficult to accomplish, specifically to one that advocates/demands a lifestyle that eschews so many socially popular activities. In the grand scheme of things young men and women are probably the only ones with the time, at least in the numbers needed to flood the world, to dedicate to such a mundane and inneffective/inneffecient endeavor. However, I really cannot think of a better way to give the Church the exposure and sales force neccesary to have brought in the numbers it has over the past 40 years. I just don't see a way to improve it just from the perspective of numerical success however one defines that number.

I also felt I had benefited greatly from my mission and just not from testimony growth. For me, the mission made me less egocentric and aware of different cultures and lifestyles and the challenges those embedded values/beliefs and norms are to any type of change. I believe this gave me a greater appreciation of mankind and the challenges it faces.

I really enjoyed it..but then again I left the hell of West Point so perhaps I had a skewed perspective of what my alternative lifestyle (no that is not a gender preference orientation comment) options were.

[myboynoah]

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96

I went to England and I tracted a lot. I actually enjoyed tracting because I thought it was like looking at the world in a fishbowl. I got a kick out of the reactions.

I saw a number of people join the Church, and I found these folks during all hours of the day. I thought that it was a worthwhile endeavor just for the purpose of watching the Church grow. I think my mission saw two new wards open during my two years. IIRC, most of the success came from the cold finding method and then once a unit began to see success from those methods the referrals usually came. I don't believe tracting is a waste of time if one has decent sales skills. However, I didn't expect too much success, as far as numbers go, from tracting so my enthusiasm for it is probably tempered because I thought the numbers that came were well worth the effort.

I think the endeavor of getting folks to change their religions is difficult to accomplish, specifically to one that advocates/demands a lifestyle that eschews so many socially popular activities. In the grand scheme of things young men and women are probably the only ones with the time, at least in the numbers needed to flood the world, to dedicate to such a mundane and inneffective/inneffecient endeavor. However, I really cannot think of a better way to give the Church the exposure and sales force neccesary to have brought in the numbers it has over the past 40 years. I just don't see a way to improve it just from the perspective of numerical success however one defines that number.

I also felt I had benefited greatly from my mission and just not from testimony growth. For me, the mission made me less egocentric and aware of different cultures and lifestyles and the challenges those embedded values/beliefs and norms are to any type of change. I believe this gave me a greater appreciation of mankind and the challenges it faces.

I really enjoyed it..but then again I left the hell of West Point so perhaps I had a skewed perspective of what my alternative lifestyle (no that is not a gender preference orientation comment) options were.

I agree with all the vehemence I can muster.

I tracted my whole mission; didn't like it much, but what a window into the world and the culture. I eventually found that getting in was not that difficult, it was getting folks to take a 180 in many aspects of their lives. I'm not going bore anyone with the wonderful results I saw that came from tracting, but I saw no waste of my time.

[myboynoah]

Originally Posted by Adam

The actual growth rate of the Church floats around 0%. The numbers keep going up because every child of every person that ever joins the church is added to the records. All inactive are kept on the records in the lost member file until they reach a theoretical age of 120 when they are removed (the only other way to get off the rolls if you die is if the ward sends in the death notice--if it isn't sent in, you stay on until 120). So the absolute numbers are edging up slightly every year (while the yearly trend line is significantly down over the last 15 years or so).

That's odd. I'm interested in how The Church knows about and diligently records the births of children to members of whose whereabouts it has no idea. Must be using a peep stone.

[SteelBlue]

Originally Posted by myboynoah

I agree with all the vehemence I can muster.

I tracted my whole mission; didn't like it much, but what a window into the world and the culture. I eventually found that getting in was not that difficult, it was getting folks to take a 180 in many aspects of their lives. I'm not going bore anyone with the wonderful results I saw that came from tracting, but I saw no waste of my time.

I think it depends on where you did your tracting. Goat's success in England is quite impressive. I served in Holland/Belgium and to say that tracting was not a waste of time 90% of the time would be a lie. However, it was the most effective method in the mission. No other method worked, period. So, one could tract and experience a modicum of success or one could sit on one's thumb and have a 0% success rate. As for me and my house, we chose to tract.

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by Adam

The actual growth rate of the Church floats around 0%.

In my opinion, the only conversion rate statistic that really matters is the ratio of the conversion rate to the world birth rate. Until we convert as many people as are born into the world each day, then we're a shrinking Church.

Mathematically speaking, Islam has it right. If you can't convert them, then you've got to kill them. Otherwise you'll never take over the world.