04-22-2008, 08:46 PM | #41 |
Demiurge
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 36,365
|
A good secretary (assuming one typed this letter up) would have tried to prevent Elder Stapely from sending it. He/she would have said, "do you really want to send this letter? Tell you what, I'll keep it in my drawer, and if you still want to send it tomorrow, I will send it."
This letter is one of the most embarrassing things I have ever read, and is a black mark on the quorum. |
04-22-2008, 08:49 PM | #42 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Between Iraq and a hard place
Posts: 7,569
|
You pulled a thread that had been mothballed for 4 months for that comment?
|
04-22-2008, 08:53 PM | #43 |
Demiurge
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 36,365
|
Indy, I looked up this thread when wondering whether Elder Packer's comments about women would be compared to this one.
And then I remembered what a mentor told me: "my secretary has saved me innumerable times from sending out angry letters that I never should have written." I really like Stapely's letter for one reason: to reasonable people, it definitively shows that apostles are human with real, significant foibles. Most people here believe that. But there are a lot of people that don't. And there are people who claim that racism was never a part of the blacks and priesthood practice/doctrine. In one letter, Elder Stapely refuted both. And the ironic thing is that I never recalled hearing his name before I saw this letter. If this letter is his primary public legacy, then that is an interesting legacy. And in some ways, an important one. In a strange way, I think this awful letter pushes the work forward. |
04-22-2008, 11:14 PM | #44 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Bluth Home
Posts: 3,877
|
Quote:
I agreed with your comments by the way.
__________________
The Bible tells us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go. -Galileo |
|
04-22-2008, 11:17 PM | #45 | |
Charon
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the heart of darkness (Provo)
Posts: 9,564
|
Quote:
__________________
"... the arc of the universe is long but it bends toward justice." Martin Luther King, Jr. |
|
04-22-2008, 11:32 PM | #46 |
Assistant to the Regional Manager
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Orgasmatron
Posts: 24,338
|
Miracles don't happen.
__________________
Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα |
04-23-2008, 12:02 AM | #47 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,596
|
Can't hurt to feel a little schadenfreud at that either, right Mike?
__________________
"Have we been commanded not to call a prophet an insular racist? Link?" "And yes, [2010] is a very good year to be a Democrat. Perhaps the best year in decades ..." - Cali Coug "Oh dear, granny, what a long tail our puss has got." - Brigham Young |
04-23-2008, 12:06 AM | #48 |
Demiurge
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 36,365
|
Tex, time has given me the perspective to go from outrage to believing the letter is a good thing for the church. He has helped reform the church.
|
05-26-2008, 11:21 PM | #49 |
Demiurge
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 36,365
|
As I have been reading and thinking about the plight of the Palestinians, this same letter came back to my mind.
As I think of those Israelis who are intensely discomfited by the actions of their state, who feel those actions have been immoral, but who are savaged by their own and called traitors. Romney was one of those. And Stapely was part of the old guard who couldn't stand that liberal position. Blacks with civil rights??? Now in 2008, Palestinians with civil rights??? |
05-27-2008, 01:06 AM | #50 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,589
|
Some of the interesting (to me) points that have arisen in this discussion:
1) I actually agree with SU that an apology to AA's from the church is in order. I even agree with the wording he chose, with the exception of some of the language towards the end. 2) I don't agree that JS was racist. The one actual citation (courtesy Lebowski, I think) actually seems pretty progressive for 1850. No response to this, SU? 3) Interesting statement by Adam that the prophets and apostles are no more righteous or inspired than the rest of us--their callings are just different. I'll have to think about this one. |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|