OK smart guys, explain this to me.....

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Adam

Ordinances are theater to impress our weak mortal minds. We need rituals because they helps us take esoteric principles seriously.

Baptism is a ritual ordinance. So is confirmation. Neither is literally magical or has any automatic inherent power. The authority requirement is to control the membership (I mean that in a good needed way) so there is a unity of faith.

Salvation, then, depends on being covered by the atonement of Christ. To be in good standing in the Church (which I believe was really founded by John the Baptist and Peter/James/John via Joseph) one needs to submit to the ordinances proscribed by inspiration/revelation. These ordinances lead us to sink more deeply into commitment to the gospel of Jesus Christ--they bend our arc towards sanctification. But they do not constitute sanctification.

Sanctification is the process of burning the dross out of our spirits. This literally cleansing of the effects of sin from our soul is accomplished by the intake of the Holy Spirit. This almost never happens during ordinances, but can.

I haste to add that all of this is IMHO and there are quotes from Brigham Young (among others I'm sure) that disagree with me. BY taught that when you are baptized and confirmed your blood is literally changed into the believing covenant blood of Israel--that the ordinances are actually magical in a literal way. I don't agree with that and current apostles don't teach this anymore.

Or a third different explanation could be right, possibly incorporating aspects of both positions.

I view the ordinances as being vital and having an inherent power (magical if you want to say it that way) about them.

The gospel I believe in is faith, repentance, baptism, gift of HG. I don't go much deeper than that, but I believe there is a depth in those doctrines that far surpasses what many consider the deep doctrines of the gospel.

I believe there is a remission of sins through baptism and GoHG, which is a process that starts with faith and repentance. I also believe this is a process which we continually cycle through, with sacrament serving proxy as the ordinances. So it's not that it's done once as an 8 yo and it's done.