Men Bad?

[realtall]

So I was sitting in Gospel Principles Sunday during church. At some point during the lesson, though, it became something of a man-bashing session. The theme seemed to turn into women are basically good and that men were bad. Several sisters in the room set it up and several brothers were happy to agree with them; 'yes we're messed up all right.' A young lady(18 or so) in the room even volunteered that in her recent visit with the bishop that he said that "men are stupid...And that's coming from the Bishop!" This whole non-lovefest lasted about 10 minutes. I did not volunteer my views at the time(I'm still trying to figure out whether that was wise or not) knowing that it probably be viewed as somewhat chauvanistic by the sisters. Talk about a double standard.

Anyhow, I grow weary of the purposeful and repeated public ripping on men in public and the men smiling and agreeing with the whole thing. I wouldn't care about an individual event so much but this happens over & over again. Apparently its vogue in the church now to behave like this.

[Archaea]

but I tend to agree, the ones I see striving to be righteous are NOT the women, but they sure receive loads of credit for righteousness.

[SoCalCoug]

Sorry, Archaea, I get to your posts, and for some reason, after about ten seconds looking at it, I realize I have no idea what you wrote.

Keep it up! 8)

[tooblue]

Men are stupid realtall :P

I think the single biggest reason for these phenomena in the church, which I’ve been known to champion on occasion, is because it is more difficult to enlist the cooperation of the body of Men in a Ward than it is to rely on the innate willingness of woman to serve. I do sincerely believe, in general, woman are more intelligent and MUCH more in tune with the essential aspects of life.

I would also submit that in matters of the heart not only are men not very bright but also, in general, they are cowards. I should not go further because I am certain I will find nothing but grief on this subject matter. I will say that there are many amazing men that I have worked with and greatly admire in the church, and that I have served with a nearly equal number of difficult and daft women. The reality is the ratio of woman to men dictates that there are more intelligent and capable woman than men in a Ward.

[realtall]

Originally Posted by tooblue

Men are stupid realtall :P

I think the single biggest reason for these phenomena in the church, which I’ve been known to champion on occasion, is because it is more difficult to enlist the cooperation of the body of Men in a Ward than it is to rely on the innate willingness of woman to serve. I do sincerely believe, in general, woman are more intelligent and MUCH more in tune with the essential aspects of life.

I would also submit that in matters of the heart not only are men not very bright but also, in general, they are cowards. I should not go further because I am certain I will find nothing but grief on this subject matter. I will say that there are many amazing men that I have worked with and greatly admire in the church, and that I have served with a nearly equal number of difficult and daft women. The reality is the ratio of woman to men dictates that there are more intelligent and capable woman than men in a Ward.

Those are all verrrry interesting opinions, tooblue. I'm not all that sure about what they have to do with my post. I will say, however, that they sound much like the generalizations that I was speaking about.

Men are not stupid anymore than women are stupid. People can be stupid but it does no good to try to pin it down to a specific gender. What good does it do to do that, even in (partial) jest?

Can you imagine the uproar in SS if I were to declare that women are stupid?

[Archaea]

I imagine there are intelligent, righteous women. I have met many intelligent women, many beautiful women, and some righteous women.

Yet women always get their "space".

Indelicately stated, how many men get space because, it's "that time of the month"?

How many men can tell their wives they hate them, and then turn around and expect all to be forgiven?

Women, especially beautiful women, get a free pass, in and out of the Church.

Now, I wouldn't trade childbirth for all the disadvantages of being male. And it's not really worth complaining about, but women never really credit how many advantages they truly have.

A man can work hard all day for the family only to arrive home with the wife complaining, "Did you call the painter?" I'm certain men complain, but knowing how much I dislike complaining, I try NOT to complain but to discuss pleasantries and diversions to avoid "always being negative."

This myth that women are so righteous seems strange. They're people just as men are with built-in foibles and strengths.

[fusnik11]

here is my take on women and although my experience is limited here is one of them.

me and a friend this summer started a business. we retrieve certain goods and mess with them and re-sell these goods. we busted our butts this summer both of us kept full time jobs, full time social lifes in my case, and my buddy had his first child. well we had some bounces go our way instantly and we lucked into some very fortunate situations. my friend, with a kid, bought his wife a brand new car, almost paid cash for it and put money in a bank account to pay their mortgage for a while in case they fall on some hard times.

well one day a couple of months back we decide to both skip work and head out on our 4 wheelers and semi-celebrate a very good and fun summer. we go, have a great time, my buddy is talking the whole time how he loves his life, how he married a great wife, how blessed he was, and how he wouldnt change anything in the world. we are in the woods and so of course emotions are heightened and we have a sweet moment together....

we get home that night around 8 are unloading his bike when his wife comes out of the house with a balling kid. you can tell she is upset and it only compounds when she sees how happy and tired we are. shes cordial to me, i take the baby, she grabs my friends arm and starts whispering in his ear, the whisper turns into a normal voice and i hear her say.....

well you getta go play all day at your work, you getta work with your friends, you getta go 4 wheeling when you want, and i getta stay home with a damn crying baby all day long and it just isnt fair....

i almost slapped her. here she is 23, lives in a very nice home, hasnt had a job for over a year, has a brand new car, her husband drives a brand new car, they have beautiful leather furniture and have very little debt all because of her husband busting his ass all day and she actually has the gusto to bitch about what he does for a living?

i drove home thinking ill never marry girl like that and if my wife ever acts like that there will be hell to pay. well the next day i went over to their house and everything was normal. nothing was wrong. point of the story, girls get away with murder, boys get the freakin shaft up the ass.

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by realtall

Can you imagine the uproar in SS if I were to declare that women are stupid?

I think far more woman would agree with you than you think ... I'm also certian you would get an earful :wink:

Originally Posted by Archea

This myth that women are so righteous seems strange. They're people just as men are with built-in foibles and strengths.

I did not say that I think woman in general are more righteous, I stated that in general it is often easier to rely upon a woman's willingness to serve as opposed to a man's.

I am very aware of the generalizations of which you speak realtall and have some very strong feelings as to what they truly represent untowards men, woman and church leadership. I am unwilling to discuss them openly here in this forum. Suffice it to say I believe they are driven by a fundamental misunderstanding of the roles of Men and Woman in the priesthood.

[Archaea]

For me, the descriptions of women being more righteous almost sounds like placating. Here we have male leaders who need to lead both genders.

And in the Church there are many women who serve selflessly, even if there is plenty of conflict.

For example, I heard one GA, state, I've had many women self well, but had to release women because they couldn't get along with each other. Men I often have trouble getting them to do something but they usually get along.

[outlier]

Originally Posted by fusnik11

i drove home thinking ill never marry girl like that and if my wife ever acts like that there will be hell to pay. well the next day i went over to their house and everything was normal. nothing was wrong. point of the story, girls get away with murder, boys get the freakin shaft up the ass.

Sounds like the realization of a grave concern my brother has about his five daughters, namely that they've gone through young womens receiving the constant message that they are Special and they are Spiritual and that if they marry some dude in the temple, they're set and don't need to worry about anything else b/c they are entitled to being supported by him forever (implying they have no responsibilities to him).

That might have made sense back in the good old days when men were allowed to beat their wives if they got out of hand, but now that society has crumbled, women should probably pull their own weight one way or another.

FWIW, though, I think the dudes in sunday school who are agreeing to the "women are better" theory are mostly just trying to join a perceived social group (they think that this is some sort of shared quasi-joke that they get to take part in and thereby are striving to fit in with a perceived social norm) and haven't exactly made a serious evaluation using emprical data.

As for me, though:

1. God
2. Family
3. Country
4. Gender

Yours in heartfelt misogyny,

o