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Levin · 10-08-2008, 06:37 PM

My colleague here at work, a devout Catholic, is a good friend. She has been to Church with my family (when my wife spoke in Sacrament meeting). She has a crush on another conservative Catholic and was looking for an excuse to "ask him out," as in, "I'm going to dinner at my friend's house, want to come with?" I offered to host the dinner, even suggesting that she could come on Monday night for FHE and we could rope him in by reenacting Daniel and the Lions Den with my two boys -- the Spirit would move him to like her after witnessing such homespun goodness and virtue. She's excited by the idea and immediately accepts. More background: A very senior partner here at the firm is LDS.

Fast forward two days. We're chatting and I bring up FHE to confirm plans. She says, "come into my office and shut the door." These are her words, "Um yeah, so I was talking to Mike [an atheist Jew here at the firm], and he was wondering whether it would be a good idea to take Swimmer Boy [our nickname for her crush] to a Mormon's house. I'm not sure if he's comfortable around Mormons and so Mike wondered if that would be a good idea, and I agree with him."

I don't process this the first time around and she repeats. I then say, "Are you kidding me? You're saying you don't want to bring your friend to my house because I'm Mormon? Do you not realize that's like saying I don't want take my friend to your house because you're Catholic, even though I have no reason to believe that he would be squeemish by the fact that you're Catholic? It's a silly concern and you're giving credence to it by entertaining it. I think it's bullshit and I wouldn't think such beliefs and attitudes would exist here, and not especially by two people who were both educated at Yale Law School. I thought you'd be more enlightened than that, but I guess not. That's ridiculous."

She starts to cry, and I leave her office.

I overreacted. I know. But I'm pissed at the atheist Jew, who is also a friend, and at my friend for entertaining the concern.

Oh yeah, I also said, "Is your concern that we're going to read the Book of Mormon during FHE? How tactless do you think I am? I thought our whole plot was to stage a cute situation that would appeal specifically to him and loosen up his heart strings." This wasn't her concern. It was simply that we're Mormon.

What's your take?

il Padrino Ute · 10-08-2008, 06:41 PM

I have no problem with what you did. People need to be called out for their religious bigotry. She may not be a bigot herself, but the guy who suggested she not go to your house certainly is.

MikeWaters · 10-08-2008, 06:46 PM

You need to go into her office and apologize, but only if you are sure the apology will end in making out.

Be cautious.

UtahDan · 10-08-2008, 07:28 PM

Sounds like you were morally outraged. I wouldn't have reacted that way, but we are not the same person. Now she isn't coming for sure. Another way to approach it would have been to say "well that really surprises me and even strikes me as a little funny, but why don't you tell me your specific concerns."

You are an advocate (well, maybe you are someone's research flunky, I don't know) so you could have taken the opportunity to persuade her and address her concerns.

Be all that as it may, I would apologize for the overreaction if I were you. Maybe its not too late.

Levin · 10-08-2008, 07:31 PM

No. More. Preaching.

I know I overreacted.

UtahDan · 10-08-2008, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Levin

No. More. Preaching.

I know I overreacted.

Then you have placed your feet on the path to repentance.

Levin · 10-08-2008, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UtahDan

Then you have placed your feet on the path to repentance.

And I'm taking steps to her office to enter the second stage of repentance.

UtahDan · 10-08-2008, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Levin

And I'm taking steps to her office to enter the second stage of repentance.

If she says something else upsetting, count to ten before you reply. Count to 100 if it is very upsetting.

marsupial · 10-08-2008, 09:14 PM

I think dinner and a reenactment of Daniel and the lion's den at a stranger's house would be a weird first date no matter your religion.

marsupial · 10-08-2008, 09:16 PM

Besides, why does she need an excuse to ask him out? Tell her to just do it.

10-08-2008, 06:37 PM	#1
Levin Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,484	What's your take? My colleague here at work, a devout Catholic, is a good friend. She has been to Church with my family (when my wife spoke in Sacrament meeting). She has a crush on another conservative Catholic and was looking for an excuse to "ask him out," as in, "I'm going to dinner at my friend's house, want to come with?" I offered to host the dinner, even suggesting that she could come on Monday night for FHE and we could rope him in by reenacting Daniel and the Lions Den with my two boys -- the Spirit would move him to like her after witnessing such homespun goodness and virtue. She's excited by the idea and immediately accepts. More background: A very senior partner here at the firm is LDS. Fast forward two days. We're chatting and I bring up FHE to confirm plans. She says, "come into my office and shut the door." These are her words, "Um yeah, so I was talking to Mike [an atheist Jew here at the firm], and he was wondering whether it would be a good idea to take Swimmer Boy [our nickname for her crush] to a Mormon's house. I'm not sure if he's comfortable around Mormons and so Mike wondered if that would be a good idea, and I agree with him." I don't process this the first time around and she repeats. I then say, "Are you kidding me? You're saying you don't want to bring your friend to my house because I'm Mormon? Do you not realize that's like saying I don't want take my friend to your house because you're Catholic, even though I have no reason to believe that he would be squeemish by the fact that you're Catholic? It's a silly concern and you're giving credence to it by entertaining it. I think it's bullshit and I wouldn't think such beliefs and attitudes would exist here, and not especially by two people who were both educated at Yale Law School. I thought you'd be more enlightened than that, but I guess not. That's ridiculous." She starts to cry, and I leave her office. I overreacted. I know. But I'm pissed at the atheist Jew, who is also a friend, and at my friend for entertaining the concern. Oh yeah, I also said, "Is your concern that we're going to read the Book of Mormon during FHE? How tactless do you think I am? I thought our whole plot was to stage a cute situation that would appeal specifically to him and loosen up his heart strings." This wasn't her concern. It was simply that we're Mormon. What's your take? __________________ "Now I say that I know the meaning of my life: 'To live for God, for my soul.' And this meaning, in spite of its clearness, is mysterious and marvelous. Such is the meaning of all existence." Levin, Anna Karenina, Part 8, Chapter 12

10-08-2008, 06:41 PM	#2
il Padrino Ute Board Pinhead Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the basement of my house, Murray, Utah. Posts: 15,941	I have no problem with what you did. People need to be called out for their religious bigotry. She may not be a bigot herself, but the guy who suggested she not go to your house certainly is. __________________ "The beauty of baseball is not having to explain it." - Chuck Shriver "This is now the joke that stupid people laugh at." - Christopher Hitchens on IQ jokes about GWB.

10-08-2008, 07:28 PM	#4
UtahDan Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Bluth Home Posts: 3,877	Sounds like you were morally outraged. I wouldn't have reacted that way, but we are not the same person. Now she isn't coming for sure. Another way to approach it would have been to say "well that really surprises me and even strikes me as a little funny, but why don't you tell me your specific concerns." You are an advocate (well, maybe you are someone's research flunky, I don't know) so you could have taken the opportunity to persuade her and address her concerns. Be all that as it may, I would apologize for the overreaction if I were you. Maybe its not too late. __________________ The Bible tells us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go. -Galileo

10-08-2008, 07:31 PM	#5
Levin Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,484	No. More. Preaching. I know I overreacted. __________________ "Now I say that I know the meaning of my life: 'To live for God, for my soul.' And this meaning, in spite of its clearness, is mysterious and marvelous. Such is the meaning of all existence." Levin, Anna Karenina, Part 8, Chapter 12

10-08-2008, 09:14 PM	#9
marsupial Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: M-I-S-S-I-S-S-I-P-P-I... Isn't it so fun to spell? Posts: 1,701	I think dinner and a reenactment of Daniel and the lion's den at a stranger's house would be a weird first date no matter your religion. __________________ "Mormon men are inherently sexy..." -Archaea

10-08-2008, 06:46 PM	#3
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	You need to go into her office and apologize, but only if you are sure the apology will end in making out. Be cautious.

10-08-2008, 09:16 PM	#10
marsupial Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: M-I-S-S-I-S-S-I-P-P-I... Isn't it so fun to spell? Posts: 1,701	Besides, why does she need an excuse to ask him out? Tell her to just do it. __________________ "Mormon men are inherently sexy..." -Archaea