My brother, 2 years younger than me, is gay - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

MikeWaters · 08-13-2008, 08:10 PM

Most of you already know I have a gay brother.

He is a BYU graduate and a returned missionary. He is still on the church rolls but holds no desire to affiliate with the church. And the love that he once held for the church has disappeared such that he is more likely to get annoyed by church things than not when I bring them up. But overall, the church is something he doesn't dwell on. He doesn't bring it up.

I've mentioned to him that there are some members who don't support Proposition 8. This pleased him.

My brother lives in CA. As I try to imagine how gay marriage could impact my life, I try to imagine whether my brother being married to a man would negatively impact me and my family. I compare this to what I have already experienced--my brother being with a committed partner. It's hard for me to really figure out how him being married would be harmful. Rather it would give the rest of us some clarity. When my youngest brother has a girlfriend, she is not family. Engaged? Pretty much family. Married? Definitely family. I like clarity. I like to know where things stand. I know that not everyone cares, but for me, it makes my life easier as I don't have to guess. But you might say, clarity is a pretty small thing when it comes to making such a large societal change.

In response, I would say this: he wants to be able to get married. It means a big deal to HIM. If I am going to try and deny him this, I feel like I need a compelling reason. The question of marriage in CA is a civic question. I think the idea that it will eventually lead to the govt. "forcing" churches to marry gays is ridiculous. Can I support my brother on this civic question that will have a direct impact on his life?

Now having said all this, I have said here before. I am not a big supporter of gay marriage. I'm not beating on a drum to have all states approve gay marriage. I think it's a question that each state can decide. I really don't like the courts stepping in and saying it is a right. I voted against the Texas state constitutional amendment banning gay marriage. I'm increasingly of the opinion that gay marriage would NOT be the cataclysmic thing that has been predicted.

There is no way I would contribute money to support of Prop 8, and no way I would be beating on doors. I would not vote for it. And I would have find it very difficult to worship in an environment where support for it is the main thrust.

I just want to point out that this is a very real issue to gays in the church, gays formerly in the church, and their families. It is no doubt being played out in the thousands of such LDS families in CA and elsewhere.

I think it's pretty safe to say that my parents are strong opponents of gay marriage. I tell my brother on the other hand, that are some LDS on your side, and I hope that one day there is a place for you in the church, whether as an excommunicated but participating member, or a full-fledged member.

The church actually has a compassionate vision where all families in the covenant will be together forever. I try to be compassionate in the here and now, and it has been a long, difficult journey for me.

Tex · 08-13-2008, 08:15 PM

One wonders what the world would look like if the predicate for all laws were, "If it doesn't personally affect me, then it must not be bad."

MikeWaters · 08-13-2008, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex

One wonders what the world would look like if the predicate for all laws were, "If it doesn't personally affect me, then it must not be bad."

Tex, it does affect me, as one day I may have a brother-in-law who is gay. But it is far from clear to me that this will be a damaging thing.

Indy Coug · 08-13-2008, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex

One wonders what the world would look like if the predicate for all laws were, "If it doesn't personally affect me, then it must not be bad."

Tex, I'm not sure this thread was the right place to be making that comment. Mike, you undoubtedly face a difficult situation that most of us can't fully understand and appreciate.

UtahDan · 08-13-2008, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Tex, I'm not sure this thread was the right place to be making that comment. Mike, you undoubtedly face a difficult situation that most of us can't fully understand and appreciate.

Whatever Tex is, and I personally find there to be some interesting things there, he is utterly without compassion. He has either lived a life that has embittered him or he is so young that he has not watched the rubber hit the road often enough to have the hard edges come off. That even Indy is able to stop fellatiating (royalty check is in the mail SU) him long enough to see this is pretty strong evidence.

Tex · 08-13-2008, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UtahDan

Whatever Tex is, and I personally find there to be some interesting things there, he is utterly without compassion. He has either lived a life that has embittered him or he is so young that he has not watched the rubber hit the road often enough to have the hard edges come off. That even Indy is able to stop fellatiating (royalty check is in the mail SU) him long enough to see this is pretty strong evidence.

I guess being judged without compassion on a message board such as this ought to be a badge of honor. You have no idea what I've experienced in my life.

Get off your damn white horse.

UtahDan · 08-13-2008, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex

I guess being judged without compassion on a message board such as this ought to be a badge of honor. You have no idea what I've experienced in my life.

Get off your damn white horse.

How about I ride up on my white horse and help your down off your cross? We can then dismount together. It has been your choice to not humanize yourself in any way shape or form here and elsewhere. All one can see is the attitudes you have and they are without compassion. I bet you aren't like this in person, though.

Tex · 08-13-2008, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UtahDan

How about I ride up on my white horse and help your down off your cross? We can then dismount together. It has been your choice to not humanize yourself in any way shape or form here and elsewhere. All one can see is the attitudes you have and they are without compassion. I bet you aren't like this in person, though.

If that's all you've gotten out of my 6000 posts here, you really haven't been paying attention.

What a complete waste of my time.

UtahDan · 08-13-2008, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex

If that's all you've gotten out of my 6000 posts here, you really haven't been paying attention.

What a complete waste of my time.

It is difficult, indeed, to see ourselves as others do. I am no exception.

Tex · 08-13-2008, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UtahDan

It is difficult, indeed, to see ourselves as others do. I am no exception.

Not here. You all continually remind me. My last day here will be like my first: being told what a heartless bastard I am.

Some things never change.

08-13-2008, 08:10 PM	#1
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	My brother, 2 years younger than me, is gay Most of you already know I have a gay brother. He is a BYU graduate and a returned missionary. He is still on the church rolls but holds no desire to affiliate with the church. And the love that he once held for the church has disappeared such that he is more likely to get annoyed by church things than not when I bring them up. But overall, the church is something he doesn't dwell on. He doesn't bring it up. I've mentioned to him that there are some members who don't support Proposition 8. This pleased him. My brother lives in CA. As I try to imagine how gay marriage could impact my life, I try to imagine whether my brother being married to a man would negatively impact me and my family. I compare this to what I have already experienced--my brother being with a committed partner. It's hard for me to really figure out how him being married would be harmful. Rather it would give the rest of us some clarity. When my youngest brother has a girlfriend, she is not family. Engaged? Pretty much family. Married? Definitely family. I like clarity. I like to know where things stand. I know that not everyone cares, but for me, it makes my life easier as I don't have to guess. But you might say, clarity is a pretty small thing when it comes to making such a large societal change. In response, I would say this: he wants to be able to get married. It means a big deal to HIM. If I am going to try and deny him this, I feel like I need a compelling reason. The question of marriage in CA is a civic question. I think the idea that it will eventually lead to the govt. "forcing" churches to marry gays is ridiculous. Can I support my brother on this civic question that will have a direct impact on his life? Now having said all this, I have said here before. I am not a big supporter of gay marriage. I'm not beating on a drum to have all states approve gay marriage. I think it's a question that each state can decide. I really don't like the courts stepping in and saying it is a right. I voted against the Texas state constitutional amendment banning gay marriage. I'm increasingly of the opinion that gay marriage would NOT be the cataclysmic thing that has been predicted. There is no way I would contribute money to support of Prop 8, and no way I would be beating on doors. I would not vote for it. And I would have find it very difficult to worship in an environment where support for it is the main thrust. I just want to point out that this is a very real issue to gays in the church, gays formerly in the church, and their families. It is no doubt being played out in the thousands of such LDS families in CA and elsewhere. I think it's pretty safe to say that my parents are strong opponents of gay marriage. I tell my brother on the other hand, that are some LDS on your side, and I hope that one day there is a place for you in the church, whether as an excommunicated but participating member, or a full-fledged member. The church actually has a compassionate vision where all families in the covenant will be together forever. I try to be compassionate in the here and now, and it has been a long, difficult journey for me.

08-13-2008, 08:15 PM	#2
Tex Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 8,596	One wonders what the world would look like if the predicate for all laws were, "If it doesn't personally affect me, then it must not be bad." __________________ "Have we been commanded not to call a prophet an insular racist? Link?" "And yes, [2010] is a very good year to be a Democrat. Perhaps the best year in decades ..." - Cali Coug "Oh dear, granny, what a long tail our puss has got." - Brigham Young