Some Hinckley sermons were more effective than others.

[PaloAltoCougar]

I had an interesting conversation recently with a fairly high placed Church leader who, in turn, had just had a conversation with a very high placed Church leader. My friend learned that the Church observed through hard data that when President Hinckley spoke on a particular topic, there was noticeable improvement in the membership’s faithfulness in that area. He specifically cited such areas as tithes and offerings (more), gambling (less), spousal/child abuse (less) and pornography (presumably less usage, but perhaps he meant an improvement in porn quality). Obviously, problems in those areas continue, and remain serious, but improvement was observed, with one clear exception….

It was a source of great disappointment to President Hinckley that the one area in which his counsel was ignored, and in which no improvement was ever noted (within Church culture as a whole), was in money management, including debt, savings and a shift away from materialism. Though I’m getting it third hand, President Hinckley expressed frustration on multiple occasions with how the membership would take to heart so much of his counsel, but pretty much ignored him on matters pertaining to money and the pursuit of worldly goods.

It’s interesting that in our culture, we’re able, at least temporarily, to cut back on certain vices, but when it comes to acquisitiveness, fuhgeddaboudit. Apparently some can give up Penthouse, but not the Polaris.

[MikeWaters]

Yup, we live in a country obssessed with materialism, in a time where it is valued above all else.

[creekster]

That's becaseu when he talked about gambling and tithing and so forth he was talking to me, but when he talked about debt avoidance, he meant you, as I am not materialistic.

[ERCougar]

I think this is an interesting quirk of Mormonism. For some reason, we see wealth as a virtue. Maybe it's because of our lay leadership, which sort of requires that SP's and up, even bishops to an extent, be financially secure. Maybe it's because of our encouragement of one-income families. It seems that in every other Christian religion, poverty is seen as a sort of virtue--not so in Mormonism.

[MikeWaters]

If you are working for a big consulting firm, gone all the time, work til 9pm every night, that is definitely a virtue among Mormons.

School teacher? You're never going to be a high priest.

[ERCougar]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

If you are working for a big consulting firm, gone all the time, work til 9pm every night, that is definitely a virtue among Mormons.

School teacher? You're never going to be a high priest.

Totally agree. Question is, why?

Also, why is this thread not getting more attention? I think this is a serious issue, and probably has a lot more to do with our happiness/salvation/etc than anything going on in the West Bank.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

If you are working for a big consulting firm, gone all the time, work til 9pm every night, that is definitely a virtue among Mormons.

School teacher? You're never going to be a high priest.

Maybe that's how it is in Texas.

My dad taught school for 20 years before he became a general contractor and he was in the Bishopric before I was born and was a Stake High Councilor for almost 12 years.

[ERCougar]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

Maybe that's how it is in Texas.

My dad taught school for 20 years before he became a general contractor and he was in the Bishopric before I was born and was a Stake High Councilor for almost 12 years.

Was he ever a bishop or stake president?

It's not an absolute rule, but you have to admit the correlation between wealth and leadership is there. I'm not sure that there's anything wrong with that part of it--you could also draw a correlation between wealth and administrative ability, and really, administration/leadership is a large portion of the SP/bishop's job. But I think this has trickled down to the general membership in the idea that wealth is a sign of righteousness. It's a dangerous idea that has caused some unhappiness.

[MikeWaters]

Yes, I think an argument can be made that the General Authorities, while complaining about this, have actually created the beast.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by ERCougar

Was he ever a bishop or stake president?

It's not an absolute rule, but you have to admit the correlation between wealth and leadership is there. I'm not sure that there's anything wrong with that part of it--you could also draw a correlation between wealth and administrative ability, and really, administration/leadership is a large portion of the SP/bishop's job. But I think this has trickled down to the general membership in the idea that wealth is a sign of righteousness. It's a dangerous idea that has caused some unhappiness.

Availability is the key.

Those with wealth often have flexible schedules.

Those with education often do.

I've had at least two if not three bishops with education being their form of support. And we've even had CES stake presidents. So Mike is trolling his own board, but without good source material.