CG question I least understand

[Cali Coug]

I can't believe how often I come across the question here of "Seriously, why do you even go to church? Why are you even Mormon?"

That strikes me as being totally unhelpful.

It assumes that the person to whom the quote is directed IS currently going to church, then it suggests that that person really should reevaluate why they go to church (which presumably would, in the author's opinion, lead to a decision on the part of the person to whom the quote is directed that attending church really shouldn't be an activity they engage in).

Why would any LDS person make that part of an argument? Isn't it GOOD that someone attends church, even if you think they are a bad person? Isn't it better they attend than not attend?

I think all too often LDS people are more focused on eliminating people they think are bad from the church instead of focusing on bringing more people into the church. Doesn't make any sense to me.

[RockyBalboa]

Actually it helps me a lot to understand someone a lot more why believe. I think it's natural to understand what makes someone tick.

Has absolutely zero to do with process of elimination. Has to do with understanding them better.

I'm not questioning whether they believe. I'm asking why they believe and there's a huge difference.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

Actually it helps me a lot to understand someone a lot more why believe. I think it's natural to understand what makes someone tick.

Has absolutely zero to do with process of elimination. Has to do with understanding them better.

I'm not questioning whether they believe. I'm asking why they believe and there's a huge difference.

I may not have given proper context to the question. You and others have, from time to time, asked the question in a meaningful and sincere way, and I have no problem with that. I am talking about instances where two people are in a heated debate (generally about the church) and one of them finally blurts out "Why are you even a Mormon?" When said in that context, it pretty clearly is directed at only one person, and it is clearly designed to mean "You don't act like a Mormon, talk like a Mormon or think like a Mormon, and I don't think you should be a Mormon."

Make sense?

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

I may not have given proper context to the question. You and others have, from time to time, asked the question in a meaningful and sincere way, and I have no problem with that. I am talking about instances where two people are in a heated debate (generally about the church) and one of them finally blurts out "Why are you even a Mormon?" When said in that context, it pretty clearly is directed at only one person, and it is clearly designed to mean "You don't act like a Mormon, talk like a Mormon or think like a Mormon, and I don't think you should be a Mormon."

Make sense?

Yes makes sense. Thanks.

I've made that mistake in the past of doing what you say...and hope that I've learned from it. I agree that it's not helpful.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

Yes makes sense. Thanks.

I've made that mistake in the past of doing what you say...and hope that I've learned from it. I agree that it's not helpful.

I am not pointing a finger at anyone in general. I just wonder what it is in the Mormon psyche that so commonly leads to that statement.

Mormons can be an odd bunch at times. There seems to be an element of hoping that others fail in the church.

I have thought about this issue a lot, and it is perhaps what frustrates me the most out of many of the "mullahs" in the church.

The first I remember noticing the phenomenon was in church as a young adult when the teacher asked what percentage of people we thought would be exhaulted to live with God after this life. Most answers ranged from 5%-25%. The teacher then quoted a GA (can't even remember who) who said that over 95% would be exhaulted to live with God. The class overall seemed quite disappointed with that response, several noting it wouldn't be "fair" because they were working so much harder to do what was right than most other people in the world (paraphrasing there).

Perhaps it is a function of the LDS focus on works rather than grace. The church clearly believes heavily in grace, but that aspect of salvation is somewhat lost in translation with a disproportionate amount of attention paid to works.

Anyway, this is a bit rambling, but I have wondered from time to time if that doesn't play a role in people getting mad and saying "why are you even in this church!"

[Tex]

I don't know if this directed at me or not, since I recently posted to that effect.

Of course Mike Waters, among others, immediately and ungraciously assumed the hidden subtext is that I want everyone out but me and my ilk. Not true.

I have a hard time understanding some of the fierce and, truthfully, quite vicious attacks on an organization (and its leadership) from people who believe that same organization provides them the saving ordinances and doctrines.

I am forced to assume, as I said in my post, that they remain members because of a testimony, however deeply buried. But I asked the question rhetorically because the behavior seems out of place with the belief. Ie, it confuses me.

That was my sole motivation. If you find it unhelpful, I'm sorry. Ignore me, or ignore the post. Otherwise, I'm interested in hearing the answers.

[SeattleUte]

didn't an apostle recently give a speech saying something like henceforth the LDS Church must be a tighter ship, less tolerant, maybe a smaller tent? Packer? I know I'm not making that up.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

didn't an apostle recently give a speech saying something like heretofore the LDS Church must be a tighter ship, less tolerant, maybe a smaller tent? Packer? I know I'm not making that up.

You would never do that. Of course, given your up to date familiarity with the Church, that could have been Brigham Young who gave that opinion.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by Archaea

You would never do that. Of course, given your up to date familiarity with the Church, that could have been Brigham Young who gave that opinion.

I meant henceforth.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Tex

I don't know if this directed at me or not, since I recently posted to that effect.

Of course Mike Waters, among others, immediately and ungraciously assumed the hidden subtext is that I want everyone out but me and my ilk. Not true.

I have a hard time understanding some of the fierce and, truthfully, quite vicious attacks on an organization (and its leadership) from people who believe that same organization provides them the saving ordinances and doctrines.

I am forced to assume, as I said in my post, that they remain members because of a testimony, however deeply buried. But I asked the question rhetorically because the behavior seems out of place with the belief. Ie, it confuses me.

That was my sole motivation. If you find it unhelpful, I'm sorry. Ignore me, or ignore the post. Otherwise, I'm interested in hearing the answers.

Tex what exactly is you and your ilk? Aren't you divorced? And you talk about your church service as it is in the past. Do you find it ironic you're calling to repentance mostly men who are active, TR carrying, married, raising children, involved in church leadership in the present?