Havili affair... - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

MikeWaters · 01-16-2006, 06:24 AM

in a strange way, this whole thing helps me to buy Bronco and feel more supportive of him.

Yes there are times, like many, I might have secretly hoped that player X might not go on a mission in order to help the team.

But when faced with the reality of such a choice (a tentative one at this point) being played out on TV, to see it go down the way it did, kind of hits me in the gut.

I would rather have BYU represent something off the field and be mediocre, than to have BYU be the same as all the other schools. In other words, I am okay with "higher standards" that may result in worse teams. Or more okay with it than I was a month ago.

VAX77 · 01-16-2006, 06:40 AM

I want to throw out a butchered quote from Elder Holland, who many of you know, is a huge fan. I have meet him a couple of times, once in Greece. I have a lot of respect for him and what he has said about football at BYU. Basically, the jist is when the team can field a whole team of athletes who are living the gospel truely as best they can while at BYU, the wins will come despite what many may call inferior athletes. He has said character will mean more of a difference than people would expect. When he said wins, he said a top 15 to a top 10 team year in and out. Before you kill me on this, know that I have gained this info from sources that deal directly with him and have heard him say this. These sources are high class people who I trust. If you have paid attention to my posts, you know I know what is going on...

I do not think football is important to the lord, but I will say if things are important to those involved, then I think the Lord accepts the dedication, hard work, and so forth from thos involved. Also, I do think the BYU name has grown BYU in leaps and bounds since before they were successful in football. On an outsiders level, BYU is the church to so many out there....

Just a thought and if the first paragraph is correct, then I would say that Bronco is on the right path. Now, the Lord is not going to throw the td's for us, so we need to recruit as good an athelte as BYU can get, but couple it with good character, then who knows, maybe he is right.

Also, I acknowledge Holland is speaking out of his heart, not anything the Lord told him in what could possibly be a new section to the D&C.... :wink:

non sequitur · 01-16-2006, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VAX77

Basically, the jist is when the team can field a whole team of athletes who are living the gospel truely as best they can while at BYU, the wins will come despite what many may call inferior athletes. He has said character will mean more of a difference than people would expect. When he said wins, he said a top 15 to a top 10 team year in and out.

There is a reason that Jeffry Holland is not a football coach. No disrespect to Elder Holland, but that is just plain kooky.

il Padrino Ute · 01-16-2006, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VAX77

. On an outsiders level, BYU is the church to so many out there....

At the same time, there is still a very large portion of folks around the country that don't know that Utah and BYU are two different schools or teams.

Alkili · 01-16-2006, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by non sequitur

There is a reason that Jeffry Holland is not a football coach. No disrespect to Elder Holland, but that is just plain kooky.

I personally believe that Brandon Doman was an example of Hollands idea. I have no Idea how he was so good. Things just seem to fall in place for him on the field, and in life.

Surfah · 01-16-2006, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alkili

Quote:

Originally Posted by non sequitur

There is a reason that Jeffry Holland is not a football coach. No disrespect to Elder Holland, but that is just plain kooky.

I personally believe that Brandon Doman was an example of Hollands idea. I have no Idea how he was so good. Things just seem to fall in place for him on the field, and in life.

So outplaying Dorsey in San Fran and still being lower on the depth chart is proof of that?

It's a nice idea, but honestly, talent and skills will kill character any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Alkili · 01-16-2006, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surfah33

So outplaying Dorsey in San Fran and still being lower on the depth chart is proof of that?

It's a nice idea, but honestly, talent and skills will kill character any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I guess if you don't have faith everything is just chance. Maybe God has something else in mind for him.

cougjunkie · 01-16-2006, 07:18 PM

read david james blog, he doesnt seem to think Havili is completely sold on USC. I wonder if Pete Carroll was there in studio? He said wait until February 1st before you jump to conclusions.

But BYU fans maybe driving him away, I know some of his family members frequent cougarboard.

Surfah · 01-16-2006, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alkili

Quote:

Originally Posted by surfah33

So outplaying Dorsey in San Fran and still being lower on the depth chart is proof of that?

It's a nice idea, but honestly, talent and skills will kill character any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I guess if you don't have faith everything is just chance. Maybe God has something else in mind for him.

Or maybe Doman just wasn't that good. I think it's convenient at times for Saints to chalk up things like Doman not making it in the NFL to things like God has other plans for him. Now, realize please that I am playing devil's advocate here for the most part and think that Doman was a hell of a player, more of a winner and leader than player.

That said though I do not buy completely into the character wins games. Just like I don't completely buy into fanatical effort wins games. I do not believe for a second that if we had 11 temple recommend carrying RM's on each side of the ball that we would be a top 10-15 football team if they are still athletically on par with what we are putting out on the field now.

I am disappointed with the reaction of many in regards to Havili's decision. A mission is a personal thing. I am sure the decision for him was something extremely personal and one that he reached after much consideration. I know what the prophet's counsel is, but regardless, the number one qualifer for missionary service is desire to serve. I think the missionary program would be far more successful if the pressure to serve were removed. I think a missionary force of 30,000 dedicated young men and women who want to serve with all their "heart, mind, and strength" would be just as successful as the 60,000 we have now.

realtall · 01-17-2006, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surfah33

I am disappointed with the reaction of many in regards to Havili's decision. A mission is a personal thing. I am sure the decision for him was something extremely personal and one that he reached after much consideration. I know what the prophet's counsel is, but regardless, the number one qualifer for missionary service is desire to serve. I think the missionary program would be far more successful if the pressure to serve were removed. I think a missionary force of 30,000 dedicated young men and women who want to serve with all their "heart, mind, and strength" would be just as successful as the 60,000 we have now.

You are right. Its none of anybody elses business if he goes on a mission or not.

The problem in this case is that he managed to announce his very personal mission decision in the most public way possible. There was no way that this reaction wasn't going to happen under those circumstances. It isn't right but it is predictable.

The way that everything was announced was unfortunate. If he had just signed the papers(when the time comes) and let the different websites update with the information, there would have still been a stink but not nearly as bad as it is now.

01-16-2006, 06:24 AM	#1
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Havili affair... in a strange way, this whole thing helps me to buy Bronco and feel more supportive of him. Yes there are times, like many, I might have secretly hoped that player X might not go on a mission in order to help the team. But when faced with the reality of such a choice (a tentative one at this point) being played out on TV, to see it go down the way it did, kind of hits me in the gut. I would rather have BYU represent something off the field and be mediocre, than to have BYU be the same as all the other schools. In other words, I am okay with "higher standards" that may result in worse teams. Or more okay with it than I was a month ago.

01-16-2006, 07:18 PM	#8
cougjunkie Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Utah Posts: 5,741	read david james blog, he doesnt seem to think Havili is completely sold on USC. I wonder if Pete Carroll was there in studio? He said wait until February 1st before you jump to conclusions. But BYU fans maybe driving him away, I know some of his family members frequent cougarboard. __________________ LINCECUM!

01-16-2006, 06:40 AM	#2
VAX77 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 106	I want to throw out a butchered quote from Elder Holland, who many of you know, is a huge fan. I have meet him a couple of times, once in Greece. I have a lot of respect for him and what he has said about football at BYU. Basically, the jist is when the team can field a whole team of athletes who are living the gospel truely as best they can while at BYU, the wins will come despite what many may call inferior athletes. He has said character will mean more of a difference than people would expect. When he said wins, he said a top 15 to a top 10 team year in and out. Before you kill me on this, know that I have gained this info from sources that deal directly with him and have heard him say this. These sources are high class people who I trust. If you have paid attention to my posts, you know I know what is going on... I do not think football is important to the lord, but I will say if things are important to those involved, then I think the Lord accepts the dedication, hard work, and so forth from thos involved. Also, I do think the BYU name has grown BYU in leaps and bounds since before they were successful in football. On an outsiders level, BYU is the church to so many out there.... Just a thought and if the first paragraph is correct, then I would say that Bronco is on the right path. Now, the Lord is not going to throw the td's for us, so we need to recruit as good an athelte as BYU can get, but couple it with good character, then who knows, maybe he is right. Also, I acknowledge Holland is speaking out of his heart, not anything the Lord told him in what could possibly be a new section to the D&C.... :wink: