|
11-13-2007, 09:29 PM | #1 |
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 10,665
|
Search not the Book of Mormon for truly great allegory.
In a sister thread I said that I would look to Greek philosophy before the Old Testament or the Book of Mormon for moral direction, and some posters mocked me, discussing some Greek myths in uninformed ways.
I did say philosophy, not mythology, but the myths are fabulous allegories, far surpassing anything else. For example, the story of Agamemnon and his beloved daughter Iphigenia, a prequel to the Iliad. All the 1,000 ships had assempbled and were ready to sail to Troy, but the god Artemis sent a contrary wind and the ships could not sail. (One of the Greeks killed a sacred deer or some such thing, angering the god.) A prophet told Agamemnon that he could eliminate the problematic winds only by sacrificing Iphigenia to the gods to atone for the homicide of the sacred animal. Torn, Agamemnon nevertheless deceived his beloved daugher into into coming to him, sending her a message saying that the great Achilles would marry her when she arrived. She came, and the clerics took hold of her and slew her on an alter. Suddenly the winds abated, permitting the trip to Troy, and the rest is history, as they say. Agamenon returned as a conquering hero from Troy, bringing his mistress Cassandra, but his wife Clytemnestra was furious at him, not only over the mistress, but also because of Agamemnon's hand in the slaying of their daughter. Thus, Clytemnestra and her boyfriend slew Agamemnon and Cassandra as they relaxed in a soothing bath, a bloody spectacle. Much later, Agamemnon and Clytemnestra's son Orestes slew his mother, to avenge his father's murder. There is so much meaning in this allegory I couldn't spot it all, I'm sure. Start with a father sacrificing children to his career. The evils of religious orthodoxy, or, the pain and injury of adultery. Violence begets violence, etc., it goes on and on. Yes, this is a bloody, shocking story. But compare the allegory of Laban, where Nephi lops his head off without relfection, moral consequence, karma, whatever.
__________________
Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster |
11-13-2007, 09:33 PM | #2 |
Assistant to the Regional Manager
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Orgasmatron
Posts: 24,338
|
You mischaracterized the arguments.
There were Greek principles which would not fly today. The lack of suffrage for women, the concept of slavery, the concept of pederasty and much more. I love Greek philosophy but recognize it was a beginning point not an ending point. The BoM is also a beginning point, not an ending point. So they both can serve useful purposes.
__________________
Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα |
11-13-2007, 09:37 PM | #3 |
Demiurge
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 36,365
|
1st Nephi and esp. the Laban account should be read not as allegory but as unto psychological novel.
|
11-13-2007, 10:15 PM | #4 | |
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 10,665
|
Quote:
__________________
Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster |
|
11-13-2007, 10:42 PM | #5 | ||
Senior Member
|
Quote:
Quote:
There are a LOT of Hellenistic ideas found even in the New Testament which were certainly a full-fledged part of the church Jesus established. The thing decried by the church is not the contribution Hellenistic thought made for the church-- it is rather the truths and principles that Hellenism (among other influences, Judaism being one of them) effectively engulfed and obliterated. Anybody who says that Hellenism=Apostasy is being lazy (myself included).
__________________
εν αρχη ην ο λογος Last edited by All-American; 11-13-2007 at 10:45 PM. |
||
11-13-2007, 10:54 PM | #6 | |
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 10,665
|
Quote:
http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/disp...le=jbms&id=168 "When Jewish Christianity and Greek culture met head-on in the Gentile mission field in the middle of the first century, a great battle of beliefs and lifestyles arose. The Greeks' worldview eventually won, and Jewish Christianity was revised to make it more attractive and appealing to a Greek audience. * * * "Clearly, whatever denominational name we choose to give it, the earliest apostate church and the great and abominable church that Nephi and John describe are identical. The fact is, we don't really know what name to give it. I have proposed hellenized Christianity, but that is a description rather than a name." This is my favorite FARMS article ever. It speaks volumes and volumes. They really are breathtakingly ignorant of history over there. They are beyond lazy.
__________________
Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster |
|
11-13-2007, 10:56 PM | #7 | |
Assistant to the Regional Manager
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Orgasmatron
Posts: 24,338
|
Quote:
Of course, that is an absurd statement and not endorsed by the Church, just one guy whose work was probably not reviewed in this instance.
__________________
Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα |
|
11-13-2007, 10:59 PM | #8 |
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 10,665
|
I honestly believe FARMS is a dastardly organization that deliberately purveys lies. They are the propaganda arm of the LDS Church and they have about as much integrity as Joseph Goebbels. Their stuff on ancient America is just as bad.
__________________
Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster |
11-14-2007, 01:06 AM | #9 | |
Senior Member
|
Quote:
And regarding the previous quote: it states my point, essentially. Christianity, as first established, held important principles and ideas from both its Judaic and Greek roots; what we refer to as the apostasy is what happened when those ideas and principles died out. The point that I disagree with is the idea that Greek ideas won out altogether. The latest scholars will show that the so-called "Judiazers" had just as much to do with corrupting Christianity, especially in the beginning. Nor should you use one man's work to represent how FARMS people work; nor should you use FARMS to represent the church.
__________________
εν αρχη ην ο λογος |
|
11-14-2007, 01:09 AM | #10 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: the far corner of my mind
Posts: 8,711
|
This is the second time this week that you have compared the LDS church or some person related to it as a nazi. Come on. Even for an experienced troll like you this is over the top and, quite frankly, offensive. Give it a rest.
__________________
Sorry for th e tpyos. |
Bookmarks |
|
|