Excellent thought on deep doctrine - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

JohnnyLingo · 05-16-2006, 09:58 PM

Taken from a post by buffchazen on CB:

Quote:

Remember how the Jews fell into apostasy, as referenced in Jacob 4? They sought for things which were hard to be understood and looked past the mark. They sought after insignificant things.

I think many in our day do that same thing.

I endorse this idea 100%.

fusnik11 · 05-16-2006, 10:32 PM

Good for you Johnny....

What is deep for some, is standard for others....

JohnnyLingo · 05-16-2006, 10:33 PM

Dude, I thought you said I was intelligent...

And did you catch your Manifesto being posted on CB?

http://www.cougarboard.com/noframes/...tml?id=1903623

I think he has you pegged to a T.

fusnik11 · 05-16-2006, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

Dude, I thought you said I was intelligent...

And did you catch your Manifesto being posted on CB?

http://www.cougarboard.com/noframes/...tml?id=1903623

I think he has you pegged to a T.

Does he now? You have a problem with the way I worship Johnny?

Sure I think you are intelligent, but that doesn't mean I don't think you are ignorant....

All-American · 05-16-2006, 10:39 PM

As long as we're not looking beyond the mark, how are you doing at loving your neighbors? You seem to feel a rather large amount of animosity towards board members here.

To condemn learning in any of its forms is a surprising, if not deplorable, practice. The Saints, as a whole, would benefit from a lot more learning, not more avoiding of learning.

JohnnyLingo · 05-16-2006, 10:40 PM

Quote:

how are you doing at loving your neighbors?

Poorly.

Quote:

To condemn learning in any of its forms is a surprising, if not deplorable, practice.

Which prophet said that?

JohnnyLingo · 05-16-2006, 10:45 PM

And, AA, lest you think I'm making things up,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elder Maxwell

“In the Book of Mormon, Jacob speaks of ancient Judah as having rejected the words of its prophets because individuals living then ‘despised the words of plainness’ and because they ‘sought for things that they could not understand.’ (Jacob 4:14.) Intellectual embroidery seems to have been preferred to the whole clothing of the gospel—the frills to the fabric. In fact, one can even surmise that complexity was preferred over plainness by some because in conceptual complexity there might somehow be escape, or excuse, for noncompliance and for failure. In any event, this incredible blindness which led to the rejection of those truths spoken by prophets and which prevented the recognition of Jesus for who he was, according to Jacob, came ‘by looking beyond the mark.’ Those who look beyond plainness, beyond the prophets, beyond Christ, and beyond his simple teachings waited in vain then, as they will wait in vain now.

All-American · 05-16-2006, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

And, AA, lest you think I'm making things up,

Somebody tell me that there's no irony in this quote. In order to bolster his argument that we shouldn't seek that which is too difficult to understand, he quotes Neal A. Maxwell...

That verse in Jacob refers to Jews who did two things: (1), neglected the plain and precious truths of the gospel in order to (2), show everybody that they grasped concepts that were too tough for the weak minds around them. A sincere seeker of truth builds his knowledge upon the truths of the gospel that he has already received-- some of the most deep gospel conversations I've ever had nevertheless were centered on Faith, Repentance, Baptism, and the gift of the Holy Ghost.

I don't know Fusnik well enough to determine the status of his soul, but if I were pressed to pass judgement on him based on his posts, I'd say he is sincerely seeking knowledge and sharing what he finds. I don't think the bitterness extended to him is justified.

DrumNFeather · 05-17-2006, 12:33 PM

It is not seeking out the information or truths that is the problem, but what you do with it. If one feels that their testimony would not be impacted by looking into such matters, then that is great. However, there have also been people I would imagine, who have looked into some of the deep doctrines and reasoned themselves right out of the church. It is a balance thing, and one certainly cannot allow his or her testimony to hinge on said mysteries and doctrines.

TheSizzle36 · 05-17-2006, 01:29 PM

In my opinion, the most important thing is to develop a strong testimony of our Savior and his atonement for us. When that is done, secondly we should develop our faith in Joseph Smith and the restored gospel. When our testiomny on those things is sound, and we desire further knowledge, then it's okay to try to deeper understand the deep doctrine of the church.

I think the perfect example is the primary song "The wise man built his house upon the rock". If we have a solid foundation and a testimony set on our Savior's Atonement, followed by the strength of a belief in Joseph Smith and the restoration, then diggin deeper into the doctrine will only cement our beliefs. If our testimony isn't set, then it doesn't do us much good as knowing the deepest mysteries of the church won't save us unless we have learned to lean on the Savior.

Just my take.

05-16-2006, 10:39 PM	#5
All-American Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,420	As long as we're not looking beyond the mark, how are you doing at loving your neighbors? You seem to feel a rather large amount of animosity towards board members here. To condemn learning in any of its forms is a surprising, if not deplorable, practice. The Saints, as a whole, would benefit from a lot more learning, not more avoiding of learning. __________________ εν αρχη ην ο λογος

05-17-2006, 12:33 PM	#9
DrumNFeather Active LDS Ute Fan Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Nantucket : ) Posts: 2,566	It is not seeking out the information or truths that is the problem, but what you do with it. If one feels that their testimony would not be impacted by looking into such matters, then that is great. However, there have also been people I would imagine, who have looked into some of the deep doctrines and reasoned themselves right out of the church. It is a balance thing, and one certainly cannot allow his or her testimony to hinge on said mysteries and doctrines. __________________ "It's not like we played the school of the blind out there." - Brian Johnson.

05-16-2006, 10:32 PM	#2
fusnik11 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,506	Good for you Johnny.... What is deep for some, is standard for others....

05-16-2006, 10:33 PM	#3
JohnnyLingo Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,175	Dude, I thought you said I was intelligent... And did you catch your Manifesto being posted on CB? http://www.cougarboard.com/noframes/...tml?id=1903623 I think he has you pegged to a T.

05-17-2006, 01:29 PM	#10
TheSizzle36 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,786	In my opinion, the most important thing is to develop a strong testimony of our Savior and his atonement for us. When that is done, secondly we should develop our faith in Joseph Smith and the restored gospel. When our testiomny on those things is sound, and we desire further knowledge, then it's okay to try to deeper understand the deep doctrine of the church. I think the perfect example is the primary song "The wise man built his house upon the rock". If we have a solid foundation and a testimony set on our Savior's Atonement, followed by the strength of a belief in Joseph Smith and the restoration, then diggin deeper into the doctrine will only cement our beliefs. If our testimony isn't set, then it doesn't do us much good as knowing the deepest mysteries of the church won't save us unless we have learned to lean on the Savior. Just my take.