Gems from Elder Bruce R. McConkie

[JohnnyLingo]

Originally Posted by Elder McConkie

Heresy #4: There are those who believe that the doctrine of salvation for the dead offers men a second chance for salvation.

This is false, false, false. I know a man, now deceased, a non-member of the Church, who was a degenerate, old reprobate, who found pleasure, as he supposed, in living after the manner of the world. A cigarette dangled from his lips, alcohol strenched his breath, and profane and bawdy stories defiled his lips. His moral status left much to be desired. His wife was a member of the Church, as faithful as she could be under the circumstances. One day she said to him, "You know the Church is true; why don't you be baptized?" And he replied, "Of course I know the Church is true, but I have no intention of changing my habits in order to join it. I prefer to live the way I do. But that doesn't worry me in the slightest. I know that as soon as I die, you will have someone go to the temple and do the work for me and everything will come out all right in the end anyway." He died and she did [had the work done in the temple], and it was a total and complete waste of time.

There is no such thing as a second chance to gain salvation. This life is the time and the day of our probation. After this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, "then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed." [Alma 34:33] For those who do not have an opportunity to believe and obey the holy word in this life, the first chance to gain salvation will come in the Spirit World. If those who hear the word for the first time in the realms ahead are the kind of people who would have accepted the gospel here, had the opportunity been afforded them, they will accept it there. Salvation for the dead is for those whose first chance to gain salvation is in the Spirit World.

Now, in the new revelation recently added to our canon of holy writ these words come:

"Thus came the voice of the Lord unto me, saying: All who have died without a knowledge of this gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God;

"Also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who would have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom;

"For I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts." [D&C 137:7-9]

There is no other promise of salvation than the one recited in that revelation. Those who reject the gospel in this life and then receive it in the spirit world go not to the celestial, but to the terrestrial kingdom.

Oh, how I love that story. It's even better if you hear him say it on tape.


More to come!

[fusnik11]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

Oh, how I love that story. It's even better if you hear him say it on tape.


More to come!

I find it kind of odd that you 'love' a story like that.

I prefer to love different types of gospel stories.

Question johnnyvine, who is to stay Bruce is right? He has been wrong quite a bit concerning mormon doctrine.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by fusnik11

I find it kind of odd that you 'love' a story like that.

I prefer to love different types of gospel stories.

Question johnnyvine, who is to stay Bruce is right? He has been wrong quite a bit concerning mormon doctrine.

My thoughts exactly! I will never understand why some Mormons get so excited at the prospect of some of our brothers and sisters not making it. Why would anyone "love" that story?

For the record, I think BRM is wrong, wrong, wrong.

[MikeWaters]

is heaven a zero sum game for mullahs?

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

Oh, how I love that story. It's even better if you hear him say it on tape.


More to come!

I can see loving this. It's a gem in its own right. But strictly in an ironic sort of way. Is that how you mean it? In a sense this passage could not be more distasteful. BRM's outlook is so pat he displays outright immaturity here. But to make matters worse it's pat in a smug, and pitiless sort of way. He pretends to know things for certain no mortal can know, and about which only the most arrogant and insufferable mortals would claim knowledge or even speculate. While judging this man and his wife as if he were God Himself he shows not the slightest bit of compassion or humility. I love this because BRM renders a perfect charicature of poeple such as himeslf while being deadly earnest and not even realizing what a fire and brimstone breathing bafoon he makes himself out to be. It makes me wonder if he was addled when he wrote his infamous tome. How poignant is the irony here considering that he was one of the primary champions of the priesthood ban. I don't pretend to know if he'll be "saved" or burn in hell. But I do know this: From his writings he appears to have been a terrible human being.

[non sequitur]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

I can see loving this. It's a gem in its own right. But strictly in an ironic sort of way. Is that how you mean it? In a sense this passage could not be more distasteful. BRM's outlook is so pat he displays outright immaturity here. But to make matters worse it's pat in a smug, and pitiless sort of way. He pretends to know things for certain no mortal can know, and about which only the most arrogant and insufferable mortals would claim knowledge or even speculate. While judging this man and his wife as if he were God Himself he shows not the slightest bit of compassion or humility. I love this because BRM renders a perfect charicature of poeple such as himeslf while being deadly earnest and not even realizing what a fire and brimstone breathing bafoon he makes himself out to be. It makes me wonder if he was addled when he wrote his infamous tome. How poignant is the irony here considering that he was one of the primary champions of the priesthood ban. I don't pretend to know if he'll be "saved" or burn in hell. But I do know this: From his writings he appears to have been a terrible human being.

I haven't been on the board for a while, but can't think of a better thread to chime in on than this one. SU has hit the nail square on the head. I remember spending an afternoon with BRM on my mission. I went away from that encounter thinking that he was, perhaps, the most insufferable person I had ever met in my life. The man was devoid of even the slightest trace of warmth or kindness. Boyd K. Packer also struck me the same way. If I'm going to pick someone to model my life on, those two guys are somewhere near the bottom of the list.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

I can see loving this. It's a gem in its own right. But strictly in an ironic sort of way. Is that how you mean it? In a sense this passage could not be more distasteful. BRM's outlook is so pat he displays outright immaturity here. But to make matters worse it's pat in a smug, and pitiless sort of way. He pretends to know things for certain no mortal can know, and about which only the most arrogant and insufferable mortals would claim knowledge or even speculate. While judging this man and his wife as if he were God Himself he shows not the slightest bit of compassion or humility. I love this because BRM renders a perfect charicature of poeple such as himeslf while being deadly earnest and not even realizing what a fire and brimstone breathing bafoon he makes himself out to be. It makes me wonder if he was addled when he wrote his infamous tome. How poignant is the irony here considering that he was one of the primary champions of the priesthood ban. I don't pretend to know if he'll be "saved" or burn in hell. But I do know this: From his writings he appears to have been a terrible human being.

I'm sure this is the first and last time I'll agree with SU on a religion post or any post maybe. But he's got it exactly right.

Also, SU, that was cute how you typed "It makes me wonder if he was confused when he wrote his infamous book." in Word, ran it through the thesaurus and changed it to make you look like you're smarter than everyone else. Todd Christensen does the same embrassing things in his Daily Herald articles. Sometimes it's better to KISS.

[JohnnyLingo]

For people so upset at the idea of judging others, you're all pretty quick to bring the hammer down on people you disagree with.

[ute4ever]

There is nothing quite as disheartening as seeing proclaimed members of God's kingdom (outwardly, that is) squeal with glee at the prospect of others not receiving their same level of anticipated rewards, due to technicalities.

And then hiding behind the seminary cop-out of don't judge me!

This reminds me of a guy named Jimmy. He met the perfect girl and they dated for a while. However, when he discovered she was a young widow, he had nothing more to do with her. His logic:

"She is already sealed to someone else. If I were to love and care for her, it would be for mortality only, and then I would die and be unable to get into the celestial kingdom."

Interesting. Jimmy wants to go to the CK, a place of uniform love, charity, concecration and service. Jimmy abhors the widow, to earn his ticket.

[JohnnyLingo]

And then hiding behind the seminary cop-out of don't judge me!

If "don't judge me!" is a cop-out, can we agree that it's always a cop-out? Because I've seen it used both ways by multiple people.

"She is already sealed to someone else. If I were to love and care for her, it would be for mortality only, and then I would die and be unable to get into the celestial kingdom."

Um, valid concern. Why should he not be thinking about that?

From my view, you failed to present any evidence that he "abhors the widow."