People are losing temple recs over gay marriage.

[Robin]

I recently received an email from a gay friend of mine who reported that his mother lost her temple rec because of her beliefs about equality in gay marriage. At first I wondered if my friend or his mother were failing to report all of the details, but it appears that she is not alone in this.

Here is a quote from one LDS man's experience that he writes about on his blog. The author claims faith, testimony, activity, and to be moraly clean:

http://unofficialmanifesto.com/

I spoke with the bishop last night. He said that his decision is to not issue me a recommend and that this decision is solely based on my views on gay marriage. I was surprised that he backed off of the more vague attitude claims, as those seemed a lot more sustainable than the gay marriage issue. He said that he will discuss it with the stake president on Thursday and that he’ll let me know if anything comes of that meeting. I told him that I will contact the stake president at some time this weekend or early next week to speak with him on my own.

[DirtyHippieUTE]

It all depends on how you answer the question...

Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

[Robin]

Originally Posted by DirtyHippieUTE

It all depends on how you answer the question...

Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

IOW, two people could share exactly the same belief... that gay couples ought to be extended the same legal rights that come from marriage as heterosexual couples; then depending on the individual's rhetorical skill (or feeling of obligation to discuss) there could be two different legitimate outcomes in the Bishops choice to offer or deny the rec?

Interesting.

[DirtyHippieUTE]

Yes... Someone could have the same belief and still go to the temple. However, both options you mentioned (talking around the point or failure to disclose) involve a degree of dishonesty. The Bishop can't tell a person how to answer, he just has to take them at their word. Sometimes he'll know they're full of crap but if it's a close call the ultimate responsibility falls on the individual.

The way I see it... You want to have it both ways. You want to piss into the wind and not get any on you. It doesn't work that way.

The Gospel requires that you humble yourself and become submissive like a child. You may feel that you have found more efficient way of doing things or a more politically correct way of doing things but that's not what you were asked to do. You lack the perspective to understand why some things are the way they are but refuse to submit to one who does have that perspective.

Often you remind me of the guy who touched the "swaying" Arc and died. The commandment was pretty freakin' simple "Don't touch the Arc." This smart ass was overthinking the situation. If the Arc had fallen then that would be somebody else's problem. He was commanded not to touch the Arc but was too proud to just follow simple instructions.

[Robin]

Originally Posted by DirtyHippieUTE

Yes... Someone could have the same belief and still go to the temple. However, both options you mentioned (talking around the point or failure to disclose) involve a degree of dishonesty. The Bishop can't tell a person how to answer, he just has to take them at their word. Sometimes he'll know they're full of crap but if it's a close call the ultimate responsibility falls on the individual.

The way I see it... You want to have it both ways. You want to piss into the wind and not get any on you. It doesn't work that way.

The Gospel requires that you humble yourself and become submissive like a child. You may feel that you have found more efficient way of doing things or a more politically correct way of doing things but that's not what you were asked to do. You lack the perspective to understand why some things are the way they are but refuse to submit to one who does have that perspective.

Often you remind me of the guy who touched the "swaying" Arc and died. The commandment was pretty freakin' simple "Don't touch the Arc." This smart ass was overthinking the situation. If the Arc had fallen then that would be somebody else's problem. He was commanded not to touch the Arc but was too proud to just follow simple instructions.

I'm sorry, but I really don't understand why you brought me into it. I posted the thread because I know a lot of people here have different views on this subject, and it might be interesting to know that some people out there are losing their recs for expressing beliefs shared by folks here.

I don't see any relationship between what the church is doing with active members' temple recs and me, a lowly apostate.

[il Padrino Ute]

Reading the blog entry doesn't help anyone see if the entire story is being told or not.

I have a more cynical point of view in life, so I'd tend to think the guy was leaving out a few details, mainly because he said he's now thinking of having his records transferred to another ward (his parents' ward in another city) and would only go to church when visiting his parents.

Sounds to me like he's looking for a reason to stop going to church and blame something or someone else.

[Robin]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

Reading the blog entry doesn't help anyone see if the entire story is being told or not.

I have a more cynical point of view in life, so I'd tend to think the guy was leaving out a few details, mainly because he said he's now thinking of having his records transferred to another ward (his parents' ward in another city) and would only go to church when visiting his parents.

Sounds to me like he's looking for a reason to stop going to church and blame something or someone else.

Sounds like he doesn't want to stop going to church, and would find a different ward rather than subject himself to the bad feelings he would have toward his bishop.

[il Padrino Ute]

After reading it again, I'll agree that you've more likely made a more accurate assessment.

I don't think I'll ever understand why people get upset or feel slighted when they are denied a temple recommend when they covertly do things contrary to the Church, like support gay marriage. It really is simple. Follow the rules and one can have a recommend.

[DirtyHippieUTE]

Originally Posted by Robin

I'm sorry, but I really don't understand why you brought me into it.

Sorry... I was under the impression that you were trying to get after the bishop about this. I didn't read the blog because it didn't link for me. Was this a quote from the blog or from you..?

Originally Posted by Robin

I spoke with the bishop last night. He said that his decision is to not issue me a recommend and that this decision is solely based on my views on gay marriage. I was surprised that he backed off of the more vague attitude claims, as those seemed a lot more sustainable than the gay marriage issue. He said that he will discuss it with the stake president on Thursday and that he’ll let me know if anything comes of that meeting. I told him that I will contact the stake president at some time this weekend or early next week to speak with him on my own.

[Robin]

Originally Posted by DirtyHippieUTE

Sorry... I was under the impression that you were trying to get after the bishop about this. I didn't read the blog because it didn't link for me. Was this a quote from the blog or from you..?

I should have made that more clear. That is a quote from the blog. The active member is talking about his experience with a Bishop who denied him a rec based on the member's support of gay marriage.

That is the way the member describes the situation. It will be interesting to see what happens in the coming months, whether or not this becomes a wider spread practice, or if it is an isolated event.