MOFOE Alert!

[Sleeping in EQ]

A nice little article with quotes from Gordon B. Hinckley, Spencer W. Kimball, Neal A. Maxwell and Brigham Young.

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/o...ous_dogma.html

[MikeWaters]

I started MOFOE to combat the notion that environmental stewardship and Mormonism are incompatible.

It's really a shame how Mormons have been co-opted by elements of the GOP that are not in their interest.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I started MOFOE to combat the notion that environmental stewardship and Mormonism are incompatible.

It's really a shame how Mormons have been co-opted by elements of the GOP that are not in their interest.

Your concern can be appreciated, but why is the environmental movement coopted by the radicals, those who do not seek balance? It is both dishonest and polarizing to state that persons who do not support a particular piece of wildlife preserve legislation are inherently anti-environment.

Generally speaking, most legislation presented seems to take on a very aggressive, non-balanced approach and often relies upon inadequate science. Why is that?

[MikeWaters]

How many that live in in SLC and Provo/Orem are concerned about air pollution?

Not enough.

That is the sort of position I take.

[hyrum]

Originally Posted by Sleeping in EQ

A nice little article with quotes from Gordon B. Hinckley, Spencer W. Kimball, Neal A. Maxwell and Brigham Young.

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/o...ous_dogma.html

Nice that he thinks to recycle and finally traded in the Land Rover, but how many children did he bring into a crowded valley, who will be driving X number of more vehicles?

Where is the church investing their money? On promoting consumerism in a shopping center. Building more buildings while there is an increasing shortage of skilled labor and materials in the area. What about saving it for a rainy day or increasing investment in an impoverished part of the world?

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by hyrum

Where is the church investing their money? On promoting consumerism in a shopping center. Building more buildings while there is an increasing shortage of skilled labor and materials in the area. What about saving it for a rainy day or increasing investment in an impoverished part of the world?

shortage of skilled workers and materials?

is Utah a zero sum state, where workers on this project cause numerous other projects in the state to languish?

heaven forbid a company start a business in a place that doesn't have a ready supply of skilled workers. heaven forbid that workers move in to that place to fill those jobs.

I'm sure you can do better, hyrum. That's weak tot-action. Bring it hard to the mouth or don't bring it at all.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

How many that live in in SLC and Provo/Orem are concerned about air pollution?

Not enough.

That is the sort of position I take.

Well I can't speak for those persons, not residing there. Is that the correct question?

Is concern, or interested in examining the problem to an extent that consumers and businesses will have to pay for the change the question?

For example, Vegas has an air quality problem. Much of the problem emanates from certain plants who are required to replace some scrubbers. A US attorney I know is in the business of enforcing existing regulations that everybody has ignored. If these existing regs are enforced, at high cost but over time the amortization would have been reasonable, and existing other aspects of air quality were enforced then air quality could be improved. The problem here is not lack of concern, but lack of knowledge and will power to follow through.

[FarrahWaters]

I dislike that enviromental issues have become so politicized. I can't seem to read an article about the issue without one side accusing it of being biased towards the other side. Where can you find the true, unbiased science of these matter?

And from an unscientific point of view, I think it's dangerous for us to assume that we can do whatever we want to this world without considering the consequences. Of course, I did grow up in WA and was taught environmental science in school by a bunch of tree-hugging, environmental-loving hippies

[hyrum]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

shortage of skilled workers and materials?

is Utah a zero sum state, where workers on this project cause numerous other projects in the state to languish?

Not languish, but drive labor costs up, etc. If they are something other than a typical public corporation who has to answer to shareholders every quarter then maybe they could wait until there is a shortage of jobs for laborers ... they could, and perhaps should, serve as the leveling factor to keep jobs when times get tough not jump on the construction bandwagon when building and the economy are going pretty good. When the next recession comes along they may be in as much financial hurt as all the other corporations, citizens, members, etc.

If construction is already hopping in Utah, which it seems it is, and they feel they have to put the money to work, I'm sure there are plenty of places in the world more impoverished and "blighted" than Salt Lake City.

And there are plenty of more environmentally responsible buildings than shopping malls. They could be investing in infrastructure for alternative fuels for example. Put those good old sugar beets to better use.

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

heaven forbid a company start a business in a place that doesn't have a ready supply of skilled workers. heaven forbid that workers move in to that place to fill those jobs.

So you want more people to move to a valley that is getting overcrowded and polluted? Again, I don't fault a for-profit company for doing this, but they are at the same time proporting to be an example of good stewardship. Furthermore, are all these new temples Energy Star compliant?

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I'm sure you can do better, hyrum. That's weak tot-action. Bring it hard to the mouth or don't bring it at all.

Not as weak as your attempted block, it seems.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by FarrahWaters

I dislike that enviromental issues have become so politicized. I can't seem to read an article about the issue without one side accusing it of being biased towards the other side. Where can you find the true, unbiased science of these matter?

And from an unscientific point of view, I think it's dangerous for us to assume that we can do whatever we want to this world without considering the consequences. Of course, I did grow up in WA and was taught environmental science in school by a bunch of tree-hugging, environmental-loving hippies

This is my perspective as well.

The true believers are fundamentalist reductionists in their approach to the subject and the defenders of the faith of consumerism react as stridently as the crusading believers.

Look at hyrum's attempt. He has a testimony of the inerrancy of all points of the faith environmentalism, that all aspects of it are above reproach.