B.H. Roberts on Breast Plate, Urim and Thummim and Crystal Gazing

[Sleeping in EQ]

From pages 207-209 of "A Book of Mormon Study":

"It may be fitting to inquire if Ethan Smith's book affords any material that would suggest the Urim and Thummim to the author of the Book of Mormon, and the strange part it took in the alleged translation.

There certainly is such material in Mr. Smith's book where he discusses the 7th argument of the tabulated list ["The Indians having one tribe, answering in various respects to the tribes of Levi, sheds further light on this subject."], and quoting Adair [whose influential work, The History of the American Indians, was extensively cited by Ethan Smith]:

'In conformity to, or after the manner of the Jews, the Indian Americans have their prophets, high priests, and others of a religious order....The Indian tradition says, that their fathers were possessed of an extraordinary divine spirit, by which they foretold things future; and this they transmitted to their offspring, provided they obeyed the sacred laws annexed to it. Ishteallo (Mr. Adair says of those Indians) is the name of all their priestly order; and their pontifical office descends by inheritance to the eldest. There are some traces of agreement, though chiefly lost, in their pontifical dress. Before the Indian Archimagus officiates in making the supposed holy fire for the yearly atonement for sins, the Sagan (waiter upon the high priest) clothes him with a white Ephod, which is a waistcoat without sleeves. In resemblance of the Urim and Thummim, the American Archimagus wears a breast plate made of a white conch-shell with two holes bored in the middle of it through which he puts the end of an otter skin strap, and fastens a buck horn white button to the outside of each, as if in imitation of the precious stones of the Urim" (Views of the Hebrews, p. 150).

At page 166, and quoting now Hunter's Narrative of the Manners and Customs of the Indians printed at Philadelphia, 1823, he says, (speaking of the dress of the Indian high priest): 'His rove was a buffalo skin, singularly decorated with various colored freathers and porcupine quills. And he wore on his breast, suspended upon his neck, a dressed beaver skin stretched on sticks, on which were painted various hieroglyphic figures, in different colors. The Indians speak of similar characters being among other tribes.' Here, as in Mr. Adair's account, says Mr. Smith, 'is their high priest's robe, and breast plate.' And also on the 'breast plate,' one may add, from the above description, 'hieroglyphic figures,' as if breast plate and the conch-shell and buck horn white button fastened to the outside of each, 'in imitation of the precious stones of Urim' as Mr. Smith describes it, had something to do with the translation of these hieroglyphics.

Again, at page 195, Mr. Smith describes a find that was made in a mound on the Scioto river, near Chillicothe, reported by Rev. Dr. Wilson. The mound contained human bones: 'under its base in the center lay a skeleton on a platform of twenty feet, formed of bark; and over it a mat formed of some bark. On the breast lay a piece of copper, also a curious stone fine inches in length, two in breadth, with two perforations through it, containing a string of sinews of some animal. On this string were many beads of ivory or bone. The whole appeared to have been designed to wear upon the neck as a kind of breast plate.'

Take now the prophet Joseph's description of the Urim and Thummim found with the Book of Mormon:

'With the records was found a curious instrument, which the ancients called 'Urim and Thummim,' which consisted of two transparent stones set in the rim of a bow fastened to a breast plate. Through the medium of the Urim and Thummim I translated the record by the gift and power of God.' Joseph Smith in the letter to Mr. John Wentworth, March 1st, 1842 (History of the Church, 5:537).

Can there be any doubt, but what the things said in Ethan Smith's book, on the matter of 'Urim and Thummim,' 'breast plates,' and 'curious stones,' and 'attachments to breast plates'--all published from eight to five years before the Book of Mormon was, are sufficient to suggest the Urim and Thummim as described by Joseph Smith?

The above described 'curious stone' (suggesting perhaps, Joseph Smith's 'curious instrument') 'five inches in length, two in breadth, with two perforations through it'--tow holes--is a perfect description of such a stone once owned by W. W. Phelps, an early Mormon convert, from New York State, and which is traditionally maong early Church members known as 'Phelps' Urim,' or 'Peep Stone.' There is no knowledge of Church tradition that this man attempted to use this as a 'Seer Stone,' so far as results are concerned ; but seership purposes is what the Phelps' 'Curious Stone' was designed for. The bright stones of Urim and Thummim were for the purpose, no doubt, of fixing the gaze of the seer for purposes of concentration of mind. Taking this stone in one's hand--I did so with the Phelps' perforated stone--and drawing it toward the eyes until it reaches the right focus, the two holes become, of course, in appearance but one, and this single bright spot of light, with all else excluded, which becomes the bright field in which the vision of the seer--the modern 'Crystal Gazer'--appears. A glass of clear water is said to answer at times the same purpose. In a bit of seership in action describe in chapter XIII, Joseph Smith makes use of a glass of water as a Urim, in his vision of, and his description of, the Rocky Mountain valleys--which he had never seen but in vision--as the habitat of the Latter-day Saints."

[ERCougar]

Originally Posted by Sleeping in EQ

From pages 207-209 of "A Book of Mormon Study":

"It may be fitting to inquire if Ethan Smith's book affords any material that would suggest the Urim and Thummim to the author of the Book of Mormon, and the strange part it took in the alleged translation.

There certainly is such material in Mr. Smith's book where he discusses the 7th argument of the tabulated list ["The Indians having one tribe, answering in various respects to the tribes of Levi, sheds further light on this subject."], and quoting Adair [whose influential work, The History of the American Indians, was extensively cited by Ethan Smith]:

'In conformity to, or after the manner of the Jews, the Indian Americans have their prophets, high priests, and others of a religious order....The Indian tradition says, that their fathers were possessed of an extraordinary divine spirit, by which they foretold things future; and this they transmitted to their offspring, provided they obeyed the sacred laws annexed to it. Ishteallo (Mr. Adair says of those Indians) is the name of all their priestly order; and their pontifical office descends by inheritance to the eldest. There are some traces of agreement, though chiefly lost, in their pontifical dress. Before the Indian Archimagus officiates in making the supposed holy fire for the yearly atonement for sins, the Sagan (waiter upon the high priest) clothes him with a white Ephod, which is a waistcoat without sleeves. In resemblance of the Urim and Thummim, the American Archimagus wears a breast plate made of a white conch-shell with two holes bored in the middle of it through which he puts the end of an otter skin strap, and fastens a buck horn white button to the outside of each, as if in imitation of the precious stones of the Urim" (Views of the Hebrews, p. 150).

At page 166, and quoting now Hunter's Narrative of the Manners and Customs of the Indians printed at Philadelphia, 1823, he says, (speaking of the dress of the Indian high priest): 'His rove was a buffalo skin, singularly decorated with various colored freathers and porcupine quills. And he wore on his breast, suspended upon his neck, a dressed beaver skin stretched on sticks, on which were painted various hieroglyphic figures, in different colors. The Indians speak of similar characters being among other tribes.' Here, as in Mr. Adair's account, says Mr. Smith, 'is their high priest's robe, and breast plate.' And also on the 'breast plate,' one may add, from the above description, 'hieroglyphic figures,' as if breast plate and the conch-shell and buck horn white button fastened to the outside of each, 'in imitation of the precious stones of Urim' as Mr. Smith describes it, had something to do with the translation of these hieroglyphics.

Again, at page 195, Mr. Smith describes a find that was made in a mound on the Scioto river, near Chillicothe, reported by Rev. Dr. Wilson. The mound contained human bones: 'under its base in the center lay a skeleton on a platform of twenty feet, formed of bark; and over it a mat formed of some bark. On the breast lay a piece of copper, also a curious stone fine inches in length, two in breadth, with two perforations through it, containing a string of sinews of some animal. On this string were many beads of ivory or bone. The whole appeared to have been designed to wear upon the neck as a kind of breast plate.'

Take now the prophet Joseph's description of the Urim and Thummim found with the Book of Mormon:

'With the records was found a curious instrument, which the ancients called 'Urim and Thummim,' which consisted of two transparent stones set in the rim of a bow fastened to a breast plate. Through the medium of the Urim and Thummim I translated the record by the gift and power of God.' Joseph Smith in the letter to Mr. John Wentworth, March 1st, 1842 (History of the Church, 5:537).

Can there be any doubt, but what the things said in Ethan Smith's book, on the matter of 'Urim and Thummim,' 'breast plates,' and 'curious stones,' and 'attachments to breast plates'--all published from eight to five years before the Book of Mormon was, are sufficient to suggest the Urim and Thummim as described by Joseph Smith?

The above described 'curious stone' (suggesting perhaps, Joseph Smith's 'curious instrument') 'five inches in length, two in breadth, with two perforations through it'--tow holes--is a perfect description of such a stone once owned by W. W. Phelps, an early Mormon convert, from New York State, and which is traditionally maong early Church members known as 'Phelps' Urim,' or 'Peep Stone.' There is no knowledge of Church tradition that this man attempted to use this as a 'Seer Stone,' so far as results are concerned ; but seership purposes is what the Phelps' 'Curious Stone' was designed for. The bright stones of Urim and Thummim were for the purpose, no doubt, of fixing the gaze of the seer for purposes of concentration of mind. Taking this stone in one's hand--I did so with the Phelps' perforated stone--and drawing it toward the eyes until it reaches the right focus, the two holes become, of course, in appearance but one, and this single bright spot of light, with all else excluded, which becomes the bright field in which the vision of the seer--the modern 'Crystal Gazer'--appears. A glass of clear water is said to answer at times the same purpose. In a bit of seership in action describe in chapter XIII, Joseph Smith makes use of a glass of water as a Urim, in his vision of, and his description of, the Rocky Mountain valleys--which he had never seen but in vision--as the habitat of the Latter-day Saints."

BH Roberts is a mystery to me. I've never read any of his books completely through, but I've read enough citations from him that I can't figure out where he stands vis-a-vis the BOM and its historicity.

What's he getting at here?