Is Obama crazy? - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

Tex · 09-03-2008, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Barack Obama has launched a broadside against John McCain’s opposition to abortion rights and moved one of the most divisive issues in modern American politics to the airwaves on a large scale for the first time in this presidential campaign.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13103.html

BarbaraGordon · 09-03-2008, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex

Is Obama Crazy?

He must be. This is a battle he can't win. If he'd just keep his mouth shut the women upset by McCain/Palin "anti-choice" will be gravitating toward Obama on their own. But if he brings this to the forefront, it's going to get real ugly real fast and he's going to lose a lot of supporters who are still unfamiliar with Obama's own extreme (to say the least) record on the issue. I'm sure this was going to come up eventually, but I think it would behoove Obama to postpone the uproar as long as possible. Perhaps he's hoping to get it out of the way now and everyone will just magically forget by November.

All-American · 09-03-2008, 02:46 PM

Crazy? Nah. John McCain will live and die by the middle. If Obama can make McCain seem like just another Republican, he wins.

Indy Coug · 09-03-2008, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

McCain and Palin favor no exceptions.

Link?

MikeWaters · 09-03-2008, 03:37 PM

I welcome this debate.

America gets to choose between Palin and Mr. partial-birth abortion. Bring it on.

BarbaraGordon · 09-03-2008, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

McCain and Palin favor no exceptions.

Actually, that's Palin. I'm curious to see how McCain negotiates that.

exUte · 09-03-2008, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Most Americans favor abortion, and of those who don't favor abortion, many at least favor exceptions where abortion could be allowed. McCain and Palin favor no exceptions. Their views are in the minority.

There is a big misconception that McCain is pro-choice. Palin's selection forces this issue to be discussed which will end the misconception about McCain. The Republican view on this issue will be particularly damaging among women voters (who McCain was presumably trying to target).

that Americans favor abortion? BTW............most American's don't favor on-demand abortions.

Venkman · 09-03-2008, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I welcome this debate.

America gets to choose between Palin and Mr. partial-birth abortion. Bring it on.

Not just Mr. partial birth abortion, but Mr. "the baby survives a partial birth abortion attempt and is alive totally outisde the womb, but let's kill it anyway".

UtahDan · 09-03-2008, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I welcome this debate.

America gets to choose between Palin and Mr. partial-birth abortion. Bring it on.

To me, partial birth abortion is infanticide. It is an awful thing that shouldn't be allowed and which almost no one favors.

I think that the rape/incest debate is a good one that we should have. Obviously we all know where the church stands on this. What is really being balanced here is the emotional well being of mom versus the right of the child to exist. If one favors the exceptions, then one necessarily believes that moms feelings trump baby's right to live. That is a drastic simplification, but that is the essence of it.

If you don't think that the fetus is a person with the attendant rights, the the only person in the equation (mom) wins. If you think the fetus is a person then I think one is logically compelled to conclude that the right to live will always trump the right to not suffer emotional harm. So really this is, again, about whether it is a person or not. This is a theological question, but I think it highlights that the McCain position is not a far out one.

I personally view abortions that are not to preserve the health of the mother as being moral evils. I would not out law them pre-viability because I recognize the ambiguity of when a fetus becomes a "person" and don't claim that I know the answer with certainty.

To me, making an argument that a baby's right to exist trumps the emotion damage to mom is a colorable that is intellectually defensible. Arguing that partial birth abortion should be allowed in any case except where moms life is literally in danger (and let be honest, partial birth abortion already involves a birth, so how much more risky is it to just pull it out rather than stick a scaple in the base of the skull once the body is already out) is not intellectually defensible in my opinion. If the debate gets framed around these extremes it is not a forgone conclusion to me that it is a net plus for Obama.

My sense, again, is that people want to keep abortion legal. But they also view is as a societal bad and are more than ready for it to be restricted in significant ways.

il Padrino Ute · 09-03-2008, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venkman

Not just Mr. partial birth abortion, but Mr. "the baby survives a partial birth abortion attempt and is alive totally outisde the womb, but let's kill it anyway".

Exactly. Obama is evil in this regard.

Murdering babies that survived late term abortions is far worse than no exceptions for abortion.

09-03-2008, 02:46 PM	#3
All-American Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,420	Crazy? Nah. John McCain will live and die by the middle. If Obama can make McCain seem like just another Republican, he wins. __________________ εν αρχη ην ο λογος

09-03-2008, 03:37 PM	#5
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	I welcome this debate. America gets to choose between Palin and Mr. partial-birth abortion. Bring it on.