Ranking past BYU QB’s and Beck - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

jay santos · 02-17-2006, 06:28 PM

Here I rank the 19 BYU QB’s who have been “the man” for at least one season going back 20 years. I’ll categorize by Tier 1,2,3,4 (the greats, the almost greats, the goods, the not so goods).

The criteria: pass efficiency, winning percentage, scoring offense (I had this from ’79 on and was lazy and didn’t get the pre ’79 numbers).

How to handle longevity stats as criteria…I used longevity as a criteria only in the sense that two great seasons counts as better than one and three greater than two. But I didn’t count any career total stats. No one believes Timmy Chang (career yardage leader) is the best QB in NCAA history, and he probably wouldn’t be in the top 100 list.

Tier 1, the greats

1. Jim McMahon: Career PER: 157, seasons of 177, 155. Scoring offense rankings: #1, #1. Record: 23-3.

2. Ty Detmer: Career PER: 163, seasons of 138, 176, 156, 169. Scoring offense rankings: #13, #4, #2, #11. Record: 37-13-2.

3. Steve Young: Career PER: 150, seasons of 140, 169. Scoring offense rankings: #7, #2. Record: 19-5.

4. Steve Sarkisian: Career PER: 162, seasons of 150, 174. Scoring offense rankings: #36, #5. Record: 21-5.

Tier 2, the almost greats

5. Robbie Bosco: Career PER: 149, seasons of 152, 146. Scoring offense rankings: #2, #7. Record: 24-3.

6. Brandon Doman: Career PER: 152, senior season: 160. Scoring offense ranking: #1. Record: 14-2.

7. Gifford Nielsen: Career PER: 145, seasons of 140, 143, 156. Scoring offense rankings: ?. Record: 24-10.

8. John Walsh: Career PER: 148, seasons of 156, 143. Scoring offense rankings: #12, #26. Record: 16-9.

Tier 3, the goods

9. Marc Wilson: Career PER: 137, seasons of 148, 106, 147. Scoring offense rankings: ?,?,#1. Record 29-7.

10. Ryan Hancock: Career PER: 145, season 145. Scoring offense rankings: #16. Record 8-5.

11. Gary Sheide: Career PER: 139, seasons of 144, 134. Scoring offense rankings: ?. Record: 12-10-1.

12. Kevin Feterik: Career PER: 140, seasons of 144, 140, 139. Scoring offense rankings: #68, #37, #28. Record 23-14.

Tier 4, the not so goods

13. Sean Covey: Career PER: 131, seasons of 129, 130. Scoring offense rankings: #22,#13. Record 18-8.

14. Steve Lindsley: Career PER: 130, season 130. Scoring offense rankings: #39. Record: 8-5.

15. Charlie Peterson: Career PER: 126, season 114. Scoring offense rankings: #73. Record 3-4.

16. Bob Jensen: Career PER: 118, season 117. Scoring offense rankings: #22. Record 9-4.

17. Matt Berry: Career PER: 117, seasons of 121, 112. Scoring offense rankings: #87, #109. Record 5-9

18. Bret Engemann: Career PER: 109, seasons of 108, 109. Scoring offense rankings: #73, #87. Record 4-5.

Incomplete

John Beck: Career PER: 130, seasons of 129, 137. Scoring offense rankings: #67, #24. Record: 12-14.

The big question is where does Beck fit in? He has a chance to finish #2 in all time career passing yardage, so many will be tempted to put him in at the top when you make this list. But he also has a chance to finish #1 in career pass attempts, so high on the yardage list is a given.

Where does Beck fit in with the rest of these guys based on stats that don’t take longevity into consideration? If he never plays another game as a Cougar, I’d put him somewhere in the #12-#14 range. Obviously, he has a senior season left that could be very special that could put him much higher, with an outside chance to move into Tier 2.

MikeWaters · 02-17-2006, 06:36 PM

can i post this on CB? I want to send the neanderthals into a frenzy.

jay santos · 02-17-2006, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

can i post this on CB? I want to send the neanderthals into a frenzy.

Go ahead, but don't hold me responsible if BYU-13 (or anyone else who is a John Beck fan first BYU fan second) has a stroke.

I'm a Beck fan. He's a good college quarterback. He was the 33rd best in the nation last year, and I expect him to maybe be top 20 this next year. He's good enough for this offense to be top 20 and that's good enough for me.

SteelBlue · 02-17-2006, 07:10 PM

Excellent post Santos. I'm always shocked at where the average fan ranks Walsh. Most put him along the lines of a Covey because he followed Detmer and we lost more than we had in years. They don't seem to remember that Walsh's offense put up unreal numbers. It was the D that let us down in those days. Remember losing to Utah State even though we scored 54 points?

Parrot Head · 02-17-2006, 07:36 PM

Hey, Mike, where do you stand on Beck now? I remember in CB chat you calling for a change during blowouts, at least to give some reps to the back-up. (BTW, I'm all for that because it's good to get some game-time situations in, IMO, and at those points we weren't clicking at all and needed something as a kickstart.) You seemed a little more harsh on him than I would have been, but after seeing things click better down the stretch -- minus the results of the last two games -- what are your thoughts on him now?

MikeWaters · 02-17-2006, 07:41 PM

he's the best we have. I think he is okay, and seems to be improving, generally speaking.

if he continues to improve, and is more consistent, he will be good.

i don't see him as nfl material.

JohnnyLingo · 02-17-2006, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MW

can i post this on CB? I want to send the neanderthals into a frenzy.

What the hell are you talking about?

MikeWaters · 02-17-2006, 08:20 PM

I just got a boardmail from BYU-13 calling me out for saying Beck isn't NFL material.

He must have come over here to read this thread.

Pavlov was so right. Cause and effect.

jay santos · 02-17-2006, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I just got a boardmail from BYU-13 calling me out for saying Beck isn't NFL material.

He must have come over here to read this thread.

Pavlov was so right. Cause and effect.

I don't know if the Cougarboard archives go back this far now, but I researched BYU-13 out. His first post came when Beck came to BYU after his mission. His first 50 posts on Cougarboard were about Beck. Back then he got in fights with many of the Cougarboard "good guys" because he came across as such a Beck homer. He trashed on Berry and propped up Beck. He went so far as to trash on Crowton for calling Berry the starter. BYU-13 is a Beck relative. I doubt if he's a real BYU fan. His knowledge about BYU history was suspect from the beginning. After Beck became the starter, his tone changed. He now had the Cougarboard "good guys" on his side and he became more diplomatic and vague with his Beck support. He continues this approach today. He manipulates Indy Coug more than Indy Coug realizes.

MikeWaters · 02-17-2006, 08:36 PM

jay, stuff like this--is why I love you.

You are a man after mine own heart.

BYU-13 dreams of sniffing j. beck's jock, lol.

02-17-2006, 06:28 PM	#1
jay santos Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,177	Ranking past BYU QB’s and Beck Here I rank the 19 BYU QB’s who have been “the man” for at least one season going back 20 years. I’ll categorize by Tier 1,2,3,4 (the greats, the almost greats, the goods, the not so goods). The criteria: pass efficiency, winning percentage, scoring offense (I had this from ’79 on and was lazy and didn’t get the pre ’79 numbers). How to handle longevity stats as criteria…I used longevity as a criteria only in the sense that two great seasons counts as better than one and three greater than two. But I didn’t count any career total stats. No one believes Timmy Chang (career yardage leader) is the best QB in NCAA history, and he probably wouldn’t be in the top 100 list. Tier 1, the greats 1. Jim McMahon: Career PER: 157, seasons of 177, 155. Scoring offense rankings: #1, #1. Record: 23-3. 2. Ty Detmer: Career PER: 163, seasons of 138, 176, 156, 169. Scoring offense rankings: #13, #4, #2, #11. Record: 37-13-2. 3. Steve Young: Career PER: 150, seasons of 140, 169. Scoring offense rankings: #7, #2. Record: 19-5. 4. Steve Sarkisian: Career PER: 162, seasons of 150, 174. Scoring offense rankings: #36, #5. Record: 21-5. Tier 2, the almost greats 5. Robbie Bosco: Career PER: 149, seasons of 152, 146. Scoring offense rankings: #2, #7. Record: 24-3. 6. Brandon Doman: Career PER: 152, senior season: 160. Scoring offense ranking: #1. Record: 14-2. 7. Gifford Nielsen: Career PER: 145, seasons of 140, 143, 156. Scoring offense rankings: ?. Record: 24-10. 8. John Walsh: Career PER: 148, seasons of 156, 143. Scoring offense rankings: #12, #26. Record: 16-9. Tier 3, the goods 9. Marc Wilson: Career PER: 137, seasons of 148, 106, 147. Scoring offense rankings: ?,?,#1. Record 29-7. 10. Ryan Hancock: Career PER: 145, season 145. Scoring offense rankings: #16. Record 8-5. 11. Gary Sheide: Career PER: 139, seasons of 144, 134. Scoring offense rankings: ?. Record: 12-10-1. 12. Kevin Feterik: Career PER: 140, seasons of 144, 140, 139. Scoring offense rankings: #68, #37, #28. Record 23-14. Tier 4, the not so goods 13. Sean Covey: Career PER: 131, seasons of 129, 130. Scoring offense rankings: #22,#13. Record 18-8. 14. Steve Lindsley: Career PER: 130, season 130. Scoring offense rankings: #39. Record: 8-5. 15. Charlie Peterson: Career PER: 126, season 114. Scoring offense rankings: #73. Record 3-4. 16. Bob Jensen: Career PER: 118, season 117. Scoring offense rankings: #22. Record 9-4. 17. Matt Berry: Career PER: 117, seasons of 121, 112. Scoring offense rankings: #87, #109. Record 5-9 18. Bret Engemann: Career PER: 109, seasons of 108, 109. Scoring offense rankings: #73, #87. Record 4-5. Incomplete John Beck: Career PER: 130, seasons of 129, 137. Scoring offense rankings: #67, #24. Record: 12-14. The big question is where does Beck fit in? He has a chance to finish #2 in all time career passing yardage, so many will be tempted to put him in at the top when you make this list. But he also has a chance to finish #1 in career pass attempts, so high on the yardage list is a given. Where does Beck fit in with the rest of these guys based on stats that don’t take longevity into consideration? If he never plays another game as a Cougar, I’d put him somewhere in the #12-#14 range. Obviously, he has a senior season left that could be very special that could put him much higher, with an outside chance to move into Tier 2.

02-17-2006, 06:36 PM	#2
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	can i post this on CB? I want to send the neanderthals into a frenzy.

02-17-2006, 07:10 PM	#4
SteelBlue Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Norcal Posts: 5,821	Excellent post Santos. I'm always shocked at where the average fan ranks Walsh. Most put him along the lines of a Covey because he followed Detmer and we lost more than we had in years. They don't seem to remember that Walsh's offense put up unreal numbers. It was the D that let us down in those days. Remember losing to Utah State even though we scored 54 points?

02-17-2006, 07:36 PM	#5
Parrot Head Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 763	Hey, Mike, where do you stand on Beck now? I remember in CB chat you calling for a change during blowouts, at least to give some reps to the back-up. (BTW, I'm all for that because it's good to get some game-time situations in, IMO, and at those points we weren't clicking at all and needed something as a kickstart.) You seemed a little more harsh on him than I would have been, but after seeing things click better down the stretch -- minus the results of the last two games -- what are your thoughts on him now?

02-17-2006, 07:41 PM	#6
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	he's the best we have. I think he is okay, and seems to be improving, generally speaking. if he continues to improve, and is more consistent, he will be good. i don't see him as nfl material.

02-17-2006, 08:20 PM	#8
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	I just got a boardmail from BYU-13 calling me out for saying Beck isn't NFL material. He must have come over here to read this thread. Pavlov was so right. Cause and effect.

02-17-2006, 08:36 PM	#10
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	jay, stuff like this--is why I love you. You are a man after mine own heart. BYU-13 dreams of sniffing j. beck's jock, lol.