BYU is better than Mediocre

[Judge Smails]

I'm not sure how much better, but we are certainly better.

I know people are disappointed with the UCLA and the Tulsa games, but this team is a good team that is "young and inexperienced" offensively. We lost to UCLA purely because of our inability to take care of the football. The defense played great and the offense was moving the ball very effectively. We just had too many turnovers.

Tulsa, ditto with the exception of the "defense played great" comment. That said, as bad as the defense was, if we take care of the football we easily outscore Tulsa.

Now, certainly turnovers are a huge part of the game. (One could make a pretty good argument, we were outplayed by New Mexico sans the turnovers). I'm only suggesting with experience (particularly for Max Hall) the turnovers will decline. They have the last 2 games - now whether that's due to the learning curve or just the law of averages I'm not sure, but the bottom line is I've been very impressed with our defense (Tulsa excepted) and our offense. I admit to being a tad biased, but I think there's little doubt we are the best team in the MWC this year, and the future's only going to get better. The sky's the limit in 2008, and especially 2009.

We most likely won't run the table the rest of the way, but I believe we're a pretty good team.

[MikeWaters]

I don't know about the defense next year. Meaning that I don't know who will step in for the seniors.

Offense should be limited only by Anae next year.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Judge Smails

I'm not sure how much better, but we are certainly better.

I know people are disappointed with the UCLA and the Tulsa games, but this team is a good team that is "young and inexperienced" offensively. We lost to UCLA purely because of our inability to take care of the football. The defense played great and the offense was moving the ball very effectively. We just had too many turnovers.

Tulsa, ditto with the exception of the "defense played great" comment. That said, as bad as the defense was, if we take care of the football we easily outscore Tulsa.

Now, certainly turnovers are a huge part of the game. (One could make a pretty good argument, we were outplayed by New Mexico sans the turnovers). I'm only suggesting with experience (particularly for Max Hall) the turnovers will decline. They have the last 2 games - now whether that's due to the learning curve or just the law of averages I'm not sure, but the bottom line is I've been very impressed with our defense (Tulsa excepted) and our offense. I admit to being a tad biased, but I think there's little doubt we are the best team in the MWC this year, and the future's only going to get better. The sky's the limit in 2008, and especially 2009.

We most likely won't run the table the rest of the way, but I believe we're a pretty good team.

The problem is the wild variability in what one person considers to be "mediocre". To some, if you are in the bottom 99 of the 119 D-1A teams, you are mediocre.

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by Judge Smails

I'm not sure how much better, but we are certainly better.

I know people are disappointed with the UCLA and the Tulsa games, but this team is a good team that is "young and inexperienced" offensively. We lost to UCLA purely because of our inability to take care of the football. The defense played great and the offense was moving the ball very effectively. We just had too many turnovers.

Tulsa, ditto with the exception of the "defense played great" comment. That said, as bad as the defense was, if we take care of the football we easily outscore Tulsa.

Now, certainly turnovers are a huge part of the game. (One could make a pretty good argument, we were outplayed by New Mexico sans the turnovers). I'm only suggesting with experience (particularly for Max Hall) the turnovers will decline. They have the last 2 games - now whether that's due to the learning curve or just the law of averages I'm not sure, but the bottom line is I've been very impressed with our defense (Tulsa excepted) and our offense. I admit to being a tad biased, but I think there's little doubt we are the best team in the MWC this year, and the future's only going to get better. The sky's the limit in 2008, and especially 2009.

We most likely won't run the table the rest of the way, but I believe we're a pretty good team.

Due to innexperience BYU is not a great team, I think its max potential this year is good. It also has little margin for error. The Tulsa game was a brainfart that should not have happened, but it did and it will again. Even good staffs will occasionally have games where their team is unprepared to play.

UCLA should be a better team than BYU. BYU got them when they were playing with confidence and as you pointed out BYU shot themselves in the foot enough to lose.

BYU is very innexperienced in key offensive positions. The defense is what it is, a decent-good front 7 and an average secondary. BYU is above average against the run and can be exposed against the pass. Luckily, I think Utah is the only team left on the schedule with the offensive firepower to expose that defensive backfield.

The key in how BYU can move from a slightly above average team to a good team is to demonstrate consistency. BYU shouldn't destroy teams like last year where the games are all but over after the first qtr, but if they just keep winning it will indicate that they are a good team playing well. If one is interested in national hype, it will start coming and if BYU finishes strong it will build over the offseason.

Given BYU's restrictions and impediments back to back conference championships after losing that much talent is an accomplishment worth enjoying no matter if Mike's aTm friends don't even know BYU exists. Given where this "program" was in 2002-2005, and lets be even more honest really since Ty Detmer, back to back success like that is exciting.

Then there is reality. Perhaps I am wrong but I think that we are seeing some serious downgrades in talent across the conference. As the dust of another year is beginning to settle I believe that the loss of Prop 48's and the mtn debacle are beginning to impact the quality of talent most of these programs can attract. I think even TCU is being impacted. The conference had a really good year last year with two ranked teams, but this year it appears to me that it used up its allocation for this years good teams last year. If the conference were to have a good team it should be Utah or TCU. However, Utah's issues, both injuries and a lackluster coaching staff, and TCU's slide are preventing that. In a rebuilding year BYU is in the drivers seat and while it has advantages, I don't think they are that large unless there is more at play that we currently realize. I believe that Bronco very well may be the best HC of the group and has the best staff, but we really won't know that for another couple of years. Further, I think that time might demonstrate that this offensive group of players are a bit of an anomaly and more talented than what BYU will normally be able to recruit. In other words as I look to replacing Collie and Hall and Pitta, I doubt the next group will be able to step in and be as effective this quick. I really think these 3 are serious players and combined with the OL and RBs will provide BYU a spectacular offense for the next two years, or at least next year.

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

The problem is the wild variability in what one person considers to be "mediocre". To some, if you are in the bottom 99 of the 119 D-1A teams, you are mediocre.

I think one reaches good one passes the top 40. That puts you into the top 1/3 and better than 2/3 the teams. I would probably rate BYU somewhere between 40 and 50 right now, which I would put as above average. I do think that if they only lose one more game this year they are likely to move into the top 40 and if they win out, I would predict they are a clear top 30 team.

[Judge Smails]

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96

Further, I think that time might demonstrate that this offensive group of players are a bit of an anomaly and more talented than what BYU will normally be able to recruit. In other words as I look to replacing Collie and Hall and Pitta, I doubt the next group will be able to step in and be as effective this quick.

I'll agree when it comes to Collie, but with Hall, Pitta, (and Unga) I disagree to some extent. Collie is one of those once a decade guys (at least) and we're very lucky he's kept himself so committed to playing at BYU all these years.

On Pitta, I think even in the lean years (see Jolley) we've shown an ability to recruit solid Tight Ends and our offense is set up for the TE to be very productive. I think we (speaking generally for Cougar fans) vastly overrated Harline's talent last year because he was so successful in the "Texas Tech" offense. When So'oto or Austin Holt or whoever is next steps in, I see them being able to be quite successful quite quickly.

Now, I think Hall is an outstanding talent, but I just have a feeling if you replaced him with Benedict, he'd be struggling, and Benedict would be amongst the nation's passing leaders. I know we don't exactly run the Texas Tech offense, but many of the principles are the same (wide splits, etc). It is a quarterback friendly system - when you look at all the quarterbacks TT has plugged in over the last several years, they all seem (I haven't done any statistical analysis) to just keep churning out the numbers. The same could be said for the old Houston teams, for current Hawaii teams, and the same could be said for the Cougars circa 1978 - 1991 (with some obvious exceptions). Let's be clear, I love Max Hall, but I think you'd find if Brendan Gaskins (who's certainly less talented) stepped in, it wouldn't be as though we had the Engemann offense back.

On Unga, I'm not quite so confident he's not just an awesome runner, but I think the system has it's benefits for running backs as well.

As a complete side note, I believe Manase Tonga is a huge reason for our offensive success this year.

[MikeWaters]

Smails you are big-time wrong about Hall. Hall is special.

I've never seen Gaskins play, but from what I have heard, we will SUFFER if he is in as QB.

[Judge Smails]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Smails you are big-time wrong about Hall. Hall is special.

I've never seen Gaskins play, but from what I have heard, we will SUFFER if he is in as QB.

Let's be clear, I could be accused of having a man crush on Max Hall. I love his game, I love his passion, and I love his toughness. And I'm by no means suggesting Gaskins would be every bit as successful. I have no doubt Max Hall is a better QB than Gaskins, probably significantly better, and would win more games for us.

I AM suggesting our offense wouldn't resemble the Keystone Cops with Gaskins at the helm, like it has in the not-too-far-distant past.

I'm merely suggesting that Hall's eventual replacement might step in and be very successful without having been a Parade All-American, just as Hall has stepped in this year, much like Texas Tech, Hawaii, etc.

I seriously doubt anyone thought Hall would be as successful as he has when the season started. I know I didn't.

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Smails you are big-time wrong about Hall. Hall is special.

I've never seen Gaskins play, but from what I have heard, we will SUFFER if he is in as QB.

I agree. Joey Evans and I boardmailed about it after the first couple of games, he really thinks Hall is going to be a stud. He said that Hall has a pocket presence that just cannot be taught. Sometimes he makes mistakes, due to lack of experience, when he holds onto the ball too long. But he will always have that ability to step up and make a play. He is the type that BYU can ride. Look how long it took Beck to become that type of qb, despite the fact that John had far better requisite qb skills.

Hall does have a far better supporting cast than Beck had as a sophmore and junior.

[RockyBalboa]

If BYU cleans up their 3 biggest problems right now...penalties, turnovers and disapointing O-line play then the rest of the year can be very special just like last year.