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Originally Posted by Iluvatar
Alright, I'll bite. Let's discuss the book of Abraham a little further, eh?
Let me preface this by stating for the record that I'm not a troll. I'm not trying to stir anbody up. I'm not picking a fight. I'm not out to bash the church, destroy your testimonies or steal your babies to sacrifice on the alters of the priests of Baal.
If it appears that I'm playing devil's advocate; that's because I am. Someday we'll discuss the finer points of the word of wisdom, the law of chastity or the church's policy on dating. I'm sure we'll all be in complete agreement then. This, however, is not that discussion.
Allow me to revisit some essential aspects of the Book of Abraham story (more for me than you).
1) The church purchased a set of scrolls that JS claimed were the lost teachings of the prophet Abraham, written "by his own hand upon Papyrus." He also claimed that another scroll, purchased at the same time, contained the teachings of the prophet Joseph in Egypt.
2) JS claims to have translated the Abraham scroll by means of divine gift/power.
3) These scrolls were thought lost in the Chicago fire. Making scholarly examination impossible.
4) In 1966, many fragments of these lost scrolls were found in the NY Metropolitan Meseum of Art in 1966 (sorry, I originally said it was 1967).
5) When they were finally translated by secular means, they were shown to be common funerary scrolls for a man named Hor.
Mormon apologists argue that the recovered scrolls were not the ones used in JS's translation. I belive they are wrong. Here's why.
Found with the scroll fragments was a bill of sale, signed By Emma Smith (Bidamin). Experts all agree that it was indeed her handwriting. This alone would link it conclusively to the prophet. But that's not all. There were maps of the temple grounds at Kirkland drawn on the back of the piece of parchment that Joseph used to repair a piece of scroll fragment.
Moreover the fragment used to construct facsimile #1 WAS indeed found. There is no arguing this point. JS had glued it to a seperate sheet of parchment and attempted, rather clumsily, to recreate the missing portions of the fragment. This is very important, because facsimile #1 was an integral part of the story found in The Book of Abraham.
Read Abraham, 1:12-15. These versess were taken directly from JS's translation of facsimile #1. So we can say quite confidently that at least part of the translation came from the "Book of the Breathing" scrolls that were recovered in 1966.
Moreover, there was a fragment that JS had removed from the Facsimile #1 fragment. This fragment was given the name "little Senen", and it was covered with a series of heiratics thatappeared to be unrelated to the translation at the time of their rediscovery. Several years later, however, a discovery was made int the archives of the church called JS's egyptian alphabet and grammar (or something to that effect). Historians and scholars quickly determied that the Alphabet and grammar were taken directly (and in precisely the same order) from the "Little Sensen" fragment. Again, nearly nirrefutible proof that JS used the "Book of the Breathings" to translate the Book of Abraham.
There are other far flung theories out there, and I'd be happy to discuss any # of them.
What say you?
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In a court of law, it would be admissible.
And I can see why it is believed the Church possessed those documents. However, why one believes these are the sole documents used is my main observation.
Did the Church ever specify how many documents were included?
You stated "fragments" were apparently recovered. This doesn't exclude by any means the logical possibility that others were the source of "translation". I don't know what Joseph meant by translation and what he used. However, nothing you've stated meets a very high standard of proof.
It is interesting information, which I read long ago. Why do you believe its conclusive proof?