[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

Before I address anything else, I have to point out that you've just changed the subject. I didn't say that these are the issues you find most pressing. I said they were your complaints. I will concede the possibility that they are not your complaints but having arrived at that inferrence based upon what I see as your misreading of what Republicans care about, the only other option is that you are wildly mistaken. Particularly on the abortion issue, you are so far off base as to what Republicans think and care about that I am comfortable that you are either expressing your own concerns or you are just shooting in the dark about what Republican think, not actually having heard any voice those complaints. I know you will say it is otherwise, but as one who spends a lot of time trying to figure out not just if the other side is lying, but also whether my people are lying, I trust my instincts on this one. If I am wrong, so be it, but I can't square what you are telling me with anything I have experienced.

I think you need to step back and recognize what you are suggesting here. Do you think I am complaining that Republicans haven't done more with abortion? Do you think I am upset they haven't enacted more tax cuts? How could you arrive at the conclusion that I am identifying issues I wish Republicans had done more with? The last thing I want them to do is be more proactive.

Originally Posted by utah dan

I assume you mean "Republicans prefer Republicans to Democrats." But really? You really don't understand what this should be so? Go back and look at your original list and see whether you think any of the complaints you list (for the sake of argument lets assume they are authentic conservative complaints) arise from the GOP not being liberal enough. On your list, as well as in the reality I percieve, all of the complaints from the rank and file arise from the GOp not being conservative enough.

Yes, obviously a typo. If you feel you need to question whether your assumption is correct on this issue, I think we are really far apart from understanding each other. The phrase was inartfully worded as well. I was working on the assumption that you had actually read my other posts in the thread. The fact that you haven't explains a lot. If you are actually interested in my opinion on the topic, I would recommend reading my opinion instead of asking for what has already been provided.

Originally Posted by utahdan

I'm not sure I really believe it though. I think that Republican and Democrats are just alike in this respect: what our own party does annoys us, but what the other party may do frightens us. Then again, maybe it is necessary. The most I could bring myself to do is stay home.

So it looks like you agree with the underlying premise in this thread. Is the rest simply an attempt at being argumentative for argumentations sake?

Originally Posted by utahdan

I don't have any doubt that many Republicans are having mutinous feelings, I just think it is for other reasons. It will be interesting to see. If the Democrats were offering the Republican base, or even moderate Republicans for that matter, any kind of alternative we could stomach it might be different, but they aren't. At the end of the day I still think most of us pull the GOP lever.

What do you think the reasons are?

Originally Posted by utahdan

I know this is going to irritate you, but you've answered your own question again.

You need to read slower. You have indicated exactly what I said. And then you have gone on to repeat the question over and over. If anything, it is an instance of you answering your own question. I asked you why you continue to ask, recognizing you have purportedly given me an answer. But if it was the real answer, there wouldn't be much point in re-asking me, would there?

Originally Posted by utahdan

I know. I just don't believe you. It's interenet land and people can say whatever they want. Sorry.

Interesting, though, is your comment that you percieve that some conservatives don't understand the full import of that constitutional protection. I would have said if asked that it is liberals who fail to understand the very limited import of its removal. All a matter of perspective I suppose.

True- it is internet land. But people can say whatever they want in non-internet land too. Believe what you want. The truth of the matter exists independently of your belief.

You misunderstand my argument with conservatives not understanding implications of constitutional protection. Many conservatives I have spoken with have wondered why Congress hasn't done more to regulate abortion. They don't understand that Congress must operate within the constitutional framework that the Supreme Court has established. They act as if Congress can simply overrule the Court. I can't even count how many people argued that Congress should just follow the lead of the state (I think it was Montana) that outlawed abortion completely. They don't understand it doesn't work like that.

Originally Posted by utahdan

I agree on the two camp theory, though I think these are tendancies rather than discreet groups. I feel both tendancies. I can grant that fiscal irresponsibility and the borders trouble me, but you know by now that the rest don't. If I'm perfectly honest, I think that congressional republicans by and large are where I would want them to be on those to issues but have compromised with the President who is not where I want him on those issues.

This sounds like an acknowledgment that you are out of step with much of the party (the religious faction). Wasn't that your issue with me earlier?

Originally Posted by utahdan

Lastly, I won't see your response until next Wednesday, so if you care about me seeing it, you may have to boardmail it to me. I probably will have forgetton about this by then.

It certainly is forgettable!