Originally Posted by Archaea
Unlike AA who read John in Greek in a semester, and who is both smart, able and quick, it took me a bit longer.
And I come to a pericope which most know but still perplexes as to why the exchange is as it is.'
Thi is the section where Christ asks Peter if he loved Him three times. Or at least that's our translation.
In the first two inquiries, Christ asks using agapw, and Peter answer each time using philw. Christ uses philw the third time.
What escaped my notice the first million times I read it, was the word for sheep changed. The first time he uses the little sheep arnia.
the second time he refers to bigger sheep, probata.
And he uses different forms of feed.
In the first and third time he uses boske, [boske means to "feed" or to "graze"] and but in the second injunction he uses poimane. This does not mean to feed but to shepherd. He's reminding him to "shepherd" his sheep. Watch over, not just feed. The distinctions appear subtle, but why.
It is an interesting exchange upon which much has been written but it remain interesting to see the Greek distinctions and to ponder the teaching reason for the meanings.
English version:
1617I find it also interesting that the Lord had finished breakfast whereupon he used the imagery of grazing, shepherding the lamb, the sheep.
In one respect, I wonder if the initial injunction is a double symbol reflecting the Lamb of God, and projecting some imagery upon his children becoming the lambs of God.
And by using poimane, he's pointing out that the apostle have become surrogate Shepherds a la the Good "Shepherd", through the use of poimane.
The distinctions between philrw and agapw can better be explained by others, but the agapw means to love in a moral or social sense, which is the term initially used by Christ, and Peter uses the more intimate philew, affectionate kind. By the end of the encounter both are using the intimate affectionate kind of love, pointing to the grazing as shepherds of the flock.
I note the English fails to fully translate ἐλυπήθη which is an aorist for to grieve or give pain, so Peter was quite hurt that he had to plead his affection a third time, or so it seems.
Meanderings, I am certain and AA and Solon can assist the old dumb guy, but thanks for playing.
21 is a beautiful chapter and I'm trying to see how the entire 21 fit in together, with the beautiful Greek imagery at the beginning finishing up with a Greek play on words with some very Hebraic imagery. Still not certain what to make of it, but John is a beautiful work.
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