cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

- Religious Studies (http://www.cougarguard.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=35)

- - AA, Solon, Pelagius and SEIQ or others (http://www.cougarguard.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20078)

AA, Solon, Pelagius and SEIQ or others

I realize Elder Nelson has already addressed this point years ago, but why do you believe translators use "perfect" in Matthew 5:48?

Do the English translations of this verse confuse you?

quote:ἔσεσθε οὖν ὑμεῖς τέλειοι ὡς ὁ πατὴρ ὑμῶν ὁ οὐράνιος τέλειός ἐστιν

KJV:

quote:Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

NRSV:

quote:Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

teleois means:

quote:complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with 3588) completeness

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archaea (Post 230028)

I realize Elder Nelson has already addressed this point years ago, but why do you believe translators use "perfect" in Matthew 5:48?

Do the English translations of this verse confuse you?

quote:ἔσεσθε οὖν ὑμεῖς τέλειοι ὡς ὁ πατὴρ ὑμῶν ὁ οὐράνιος τέλειός ἐστιν

KJV:

quote:Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

NRSV:

quote:Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

teleois means:

quote:complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with 3588) completeness

Not a direct answer but my favorite approach to the Sermon on the Mount (the article does deal with Matt 5:48 but I don't want to split it from the context of the entire article) is the following:

Stassen, Glen H., 2003, The Fourteen Triads of the Sermon on the Mount, Journal of Biblical Literature, 267-308.

Here is a link:

http://www.fullerseminary.net/sot/fa...n/14Triads.htm

Also here is how I incorporated the article into a lesson I did on the Sermon on the Mount:

http://ss.diether.org/notes/NT/09-matthew.pdf

Also, here is a summary with my own personal spin that I did for the quarterly family newsletter.

http://ss.diether.org/notes/NT/som.pdf

I like these comments:

Quote:

This climactic triad ends the first six triads with a summarizing explanation: “You will be complete as your Father in heaven is complete” (or perfect or all-inclusive). It does not mean to live up to an ideal of perfect virtue as if we could say God lives up to an ideal of perfect virtue. It points to God's creative care for the just and unjust, giving sunshine and rain to all. It is no legalistic demand, no idealistic self-perfection. "It means to launch out with the love of God for the enemy, which goes out to all."[28] It points to being whole, complete, or all-inclusive in love toward others, including enemies, as God is inclusive in love toward the just and unjust alike.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archaea (Post 230028)

I realize Elder Nelson has already addressed this point years ago, but why do you believe translators use "perfect" in Matthew 5:48?

Do the English translations of this verse confuse you?

quote:ἔσεσθε οὖν ὑμεῖς τέλειοι ὡς ὁ πατὴρ ὑμῶν ὁ οὐράνιος τέλειός ἐστιν

KJV:

quote:Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

NRSV:

quote:Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

teleois means:

quote:complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with 3588) completeness

One of the meanings of telos is "perfect," but it has several other related meanings having to do with completion, ending, fulfillment, maturity. Religiously, this word is used to describe initiation into mystery religions - the initiates are "complete" or "perfect." The word can also be a euphemism for death - e.g. he "ended."

I suppose 'perfect' works better in English than 'complete,' but that's definitely debatable.

"Perfect" comes from the latin perficere, "to do completely, to finish, to complete." The idea that "perfect" means "flawless" is a later expansion of the idea that something is finished.

Translators apparently use the word "perfect" with its archaic meaning in mind.