Originally Posted by creekster (Post 163595)

I read most of it. I htink that if push came to shove and SU was forced to bare his soul about the Church (as opposed to the muck-stirring he enjoys so much here and on CB) he would give answers not too far from what SM gave in this interview.

Originally Posted by SeattleUte (Post 163677)

This is puzzling. I had not read this interview for about 24 years and only read the first 2-3 pages today. The part I read today still seems to me to be very good. Clearly McMurrin remains among the best and the brightest LDS culture has produced, and clearly he was a man of enormous integrity. I was once very familiar with the interview, and my memory is that I agreed with about all of what he said, and I'd be surprised if that has changed. All of you should read this. His comments are timeless.

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96 (Post 163583)

My brother in law's younger brother was a Fulbright Scholar at Penn who did his master thesis on the LDS Church getting more conservative. I haven't read his final thesis, but in conversation he indicated that he believed external influences were the biggest variable impacting this shift.

Originally Posted by MikeWaters (Post 163667)

The death knell was when they hired a candy bar salesman who didn't have the sense to not copy and paste his addresses to the university.

The death knell came when BYU decided to take a moral stand. Against the sculpture "The Kiss."

I really have no sense of what the future holds for BYU. And that's why my discretionary funds don't go to support it. They don't need my money to do more of the same.

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96 (Post 163583)

I read a bit. It was interesting that he pointed out that when he joined CES out of college, the Church was genuinely interested in legitimate scholarship. However, that changed. My brother in law's younger brother was a Fulbright Scholar at Penn who did his master thesis on the LDS Church getting more conservative. I haven't read his final thesis, but in conversation he indicated that he believed external influences were the biggest variable impacting this shift. He believed that as the acceptable values of society began to shift farther and farther from those of the LDS church the LDS church became more and more basic. He even spent a lot of time researching GC talks from the 1st half of the 20th century and spoke of how they routinely touched on deeper LDS theology, but starting in the 50's things began to get more and more basic.

It is an interesting dichotomy facing the Church. It is going to need its scholars, but it often alienates them. With the growth or the internet and Mitt thrusting us moreso into the public view scrutiny is going to come. This is not just the anti shit we find in "Christian" bookstores. However, the Church seems wary of its own scholars. Just on this venue it seems that no believing LDS Scholar feels as if he or she has any street credential until they have endured some extent of ecclesiastical interference. I certainly sense a divide between the LDS Church and its community of scholars. Does BYU even keep its best scholars? I guess the answer is in certain disciplines it does but in those subjects where legitimate scholarship will lead to those issues the leaders rather not have public, I doubt it.

Interesting times ahead over the next couple of years.

Whereas now the boobs are out, perhaps as the Church recognizes it needs its scholars some of you boobs will be in. ;)

Originally Posted by tooblue (Post 163745)

I was very sad at the whole "The Kiss" issue. I never attended BYU, I just root for their sports teams.

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 163631)

It honestly breaks my hear to say it, as I love BYU deeply and cherish the memories of my time there, but say it I will:

Utah Valley State University will have a more respected, more published, more useful to the church, LDS studies department then BYU within two decades. Maybe within one decade.

That was painful to me to admit.

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 163631)

The death-knell of BYU came with they made the President of BYU a GA. I don't think it will recover. According to Judge Thomas B. Griffith not on the DC Circuit and formerly GC of BYU, Elder Holland used to say when he was the non-GA President of BYU, "BYU is a university" somewhat asperationally. Now they don't even have it as a goal. Today they see themselves as a church leader training center--that is the point hammered over and over again in the student wards.

Originally Posted by SeattleUte (Post 163566)

I was pleased to see Waters lionize my old hero Sterling McMurrin yesterday. My last year living in Utah the Seventh East Press, a student publication at BYU, published the linked interview of Dr. McMurrin by Blake Ostler, then a BYU student. As a young college student on my way out I loved the infamous McMurrin interview. In retrospect, I think it had a big impact on LDS culture, and maybe somewhat on my outlook. Not long after the interview the Seventh East Press suffered a (metaphysical) vigilante attack that burned it to the ground and scattered its type. BYU shut it down. I hope you enjoy the interview as much as I did 24 years ago.

http://content.lib.utah.edu/cdm4/doc...CISOSHOW=14326

Here's a quotation from the interview I remember well (I found it on an anti-Mitt Romney site when searching for this interview):

“I came to the conclusion at a very early age, earlier than I can remember, that you don’t get books from angels and translate them by miracles; it is just that simple. So I simply don’t believe the Book of Mormon to be authentic. I think that all of the hassling over the authenticity of the Book of Mormon is just a waste of time. Many things have been intentionally ignored and sometimes concealed or have been taken to have religious meanings or implications which, in my opinion, have no religious connections whatsoever. I believe that the Church has intentionally distorted its own history by dealing fast and loose with historical data and imposing theological and religious interpretations on the data that are entirely unwarranted.”

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski (Post 163749)

Of course, in my fantasy world, BYU would get a non-GA president with outstanding academic credentials and with a willingness to push the BOT as much as possible for radical change regarding academic freedom, legit LDS studies, etc. Maybe someday.

Originally Posted by MikeWaters (Post 163755)

Those kind of people don't even think of taking jobs at BYU, much less think about or aspire to being president of BYU.