Similarities between Mormons and Muslims
 

Sometimes I am struck by this. The average conservative Mormon doesn't much care for Islam or Muslims, yet remains oblivious to how similar they are to each other.

1. An emphasis on how women dress. They should dress modestly. How long ago was it that garments went to the wrists and the ankles? That's been relaxed for a long time, but there is a huge emphasis on how girls and women dress. http://www.cougarboard.com/board/mes...ml?id=16306815

2. Moral police. Iran literally has moral police. So does BYU via the honor code.

3. Not a true belief in the freedom of religion. When a non-Mormon joins the church, there is a celebration. If a Mormon at BYU joins a different church, there is an expulsion.

4. Strong antipathy toward gays. A guy on CB said I must be inactive or not paying attention if I don't think the church leadership hasn't been reaching out with love towards gay Mormons and the gay community. I asked him if he can recall a single general conference talk whose subject was about loving and accepting gays. I can't recall one. Neither can my wife. So far, I guess he can't either. Meanwhile on CB you see a real strong hatred towards the "LGBT movement". I think it's impossible that some of that is not bleeding over into hatred of gay persons themselves.

5. The idea that religious freedom means one should not experience any social repercussions for ones beliefs. I made this comment on CB, that the same people who rail against Sharia law are the ones who are protesting lack of religious freedom if the Big 12 doesn't accept BYU.

So does this mean that I support naked women, involved in orgies, with a little gay mixed in, with no religious consequence?

No.

But remember back in the earliest days of the church, the national media considered Mormonism to the American version of Islam. I'd like to see us not return to that.

6. polygamy

7. Theological basis for theocracy.

Man, you've barely scratched the surface.

8. First Vision

9. Near-deified founding "prophet"

10. Veils

11. Book of Mormon & D&C/Koran

12. Gender separation in worship

13. Word of Wisdom

14. Born on the frontiers of and in reaction to a great civilization whose roots are primarily found in Classical traditions

15. Radical splinter groups and unrealistic denial of shared history and traditions

16. Subordination of women achieved not just doctrinally but through societally enforced early marriage and heavy child bearing and disproportionate child rearing burdens and denial of education and worldly occupations to women

17. Visceral antagonism toward contiguous civilizations rooted in Classical civilizations and the Enlightenment

18. Cloak of denial around the derivative quality of their own religious tradition and civilization and debt to civilizations they hate

19. Progressive members trapped in the tradition but hopeful of reformation, which more orthodox elements understand would effectively kill the distinctiveness of the institution and therefore the institution itself

20. Nomadic history

21. Intermarriage intolerance

22. Clothing prescriptions for all

21. Absolute intolerance of dissent

22. Bearing testimonies

23. Great Apostasy/one true church/last dispensation dogma

24. Sexualized eternal salvation lore

(I could probably sit here all day and think of similarities. Islam and Mormonism are just alike.)

You make some good points.

I think a lot of Mormon mullahs would be taken aback by their own behavior if they realized how close it is to Islam.

Because almost none of these people want to say that they admire Islam. Since 9/11. Before 9/11, yes, some would probably say they admired Islam.

I've mentioned before, one of our CG members who spent time in Afghanistan, years ago, commented on how similar Islam is to Mormonism, in a positive way. But I think he's abandoned that line of thinking. At least in public.

Just had someone today on FB rail on the clothes that the women playing beach volleyball are wearing.

I think it's a bad look for Mormon men to be railing on the use of bikinis in sport. Maybe I'm possessed by Satan to think this (as has been intimated on CB).

The LDS Church is what it is. Harold Bloom and others have written some interesting stuff about the earliest schism in Christianity between Pauline Christianity and James's original, more hard core, more Jewish derivative, more ascetic, more rural monotheism that probably was the form of Christianity most influential to Islam (a close reading of the NT reveals the split; for example, the council that was very tense during the famine in the 60s and the debates over circumcision; and James's diminishment as a character in the canonized gospels). (I dramatized that schism in my novel Logos.)

It's interesting how looking back you see this split in the monotheism tree rising up to today. I submit that the Germanic part of the Protestant reformation itself was a reaction to the Renaissance--rediscovery of Europe's Classical heritage and achievements--and yearning to go back to James, and of course occurred sort of in the sticks and outside of the Renaissance ferment. The Protestant reformation informed Mormonism---as obviously did Islam--and these inputs were attractive to many who disapproved of the Enlightenment and modernism. You see this division within Judaism--orthodox and reform Judaism.

Mormonism's role seems to be on the Jamesian branch, or, it will cease to be Mormonism.

Mormonism's future is to emphasize original Mormonism. Joseph Smith-style Mormonism. Eternal marriage, eternal families, Mother in Heaven, etc. All the "weirdness."

If Mormonism seeks to be just another Protestant religion (but a highly conservative one), it will fail.

In some ways, I believe, in seeking unity and approval from the Christian right, Mormonism veers from its true path.

So true. But even surer death would be becoming Unitarian-style Mormonism like the RLDS (or whatever fungible unmemorable name they call themselves now). Look how that's slowly ravaged mainline Protestantism.

This is making me realize what it must be like to be a moderate Muslim. And that being a moderate Mormon is a little bit like being a moderate Muslim. The main difference being that you are less likely to be murdered as a moderate Mormon.

People in the west like to demand that moderate Muslims change and reform Islam. But how?

How as a moderate Mormon, would I go about any kind of reform of Mormonism? I don't have any levers. I don't have power or position or responsibility on any kind of scale to make a difference. State some opinions on blogs or social media.

I feel like Mormonism is in a lot more flux than Islam. But that could be a product of my ignorance of Islam. What I mean is that we could have radical changes in policies in Mormonism in a very short period of time. For example, polygamy and blacks in the priesthood. We could wake up tomorrow to a new revelation on homosexuality that wraps them and includes them in the plan of salvation in a way that was previously not known. I doubt that kind of thing would happen in Islam in the same time frame.

Where the comparison breaks down is that Mormonism has evolved into this neat hierarchy that more resembles Catholicism, whereas Islam is huge as all of Christendom and infinitely diverse culturally even with many adherents in Asia and large subgroups. So change in Islam necessarily occurs in ways that seem trivial in relation to Islam overall, but examined discretely can be profound and involve millions of people. For example, I think Islam in the United States (despite Trump's claims) has developed an overall impressive record of assimilation and easy and mutually respectful relations with our country's religious and secular elements--much better than Europe. Islam is different here. Also, Islam is more important because of its size and reach into secular authority. So you have moderate Muslims such as Malala Yousafzai, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and Reza Aslan who capture the admiration of people across the world regardless of faith. Mormon moderates are not international celebrities because Mormonism is essentially a footnote, and if they achieve any celebrity they seem inevitably to become outcasts from the faith. Because Mormonism is more tightly organized, smaller and homogenous its moderates who achieve any celebrity usually become enemies of Mormonism.

Joanna Brooks, Jana Riess. Two women on the front-lines, who aren't really in the crosshairs, but who knows, they could feel the sting of excommunication. Just depends on which direction the hardliners go and how empowered they are.

One might be able to make the argument that someone like Chieko Okazaki was a moderate that found her way to at least figurehead power (no formal power as a member of the RS general presidency).

If BYU loses out to the Big 12 over social issues, I think that could be a useful signpost. It's already stimulating a lot of conversation and debate. The question is whether it will cause reform or retrenchment.

Personally I'm frustrated with the pace of reform on this rape-gate honor code thing at BYU. They should have had some initial changes announced already. But what I take away from this is that the BYU president feels he has no power to make any kind of change on his own, and has just off-loaded this onto others--a committee. And he will just be a middle man, shuttling recommendations from the committee to the board.