What do we make of this Iran vs. USA conflict?
 

So we’ve been fighting by proxies for many years. And recently it is escalating, as Iran flexes it’s muscles and tests what it can get away with.

That seems to be the common take.

Why is Iran so intent on spreading its control throughout the Middle East? Do they feel that if they do not, Saudi Arabia will?

Probably an escalation of fears, and prompting by Russia.

Good question and while we are at it how about asking what is the united states of America doing in here, thousands miles away from its coasts, for almost forever??

Two reasons: oil and Israel.

However, since American is now the largest producer of oil in the world, there is less reliance on the middle east.

While there is broad agreement that no one in America wants further war in the ME (with American troops), there would also be reluctance to abandon Israel.

If Iran were to go to war with Israel, America would intervene.

Why can't Iran wait a few years, before trying to destabilize the ME and enact genocide?

Speculation is that Iran let the USA know of the rocket attacks beforehand, to prevent casualties, missed on purpose. All to save face with their people. But at the same time, not start a war with the US.

Just for the sake of these two mentioned reasons ( not going to argue the morality of them here) shouldn’t US be pretty cautious not to start a war in the region? Could you name a single war that Iran has started or a single US interest being targeted by Iran prior to US fully backed Iran-Iraq war?

Its an Iraqi force base with a full unwanted guest house after all.

well of course Iran did kill Iraqis with those missiles. Like they've been doing for decades.

Trump is trying to get the USA out of the Middle East. Maybe Iran doesn't want the USA to leave. Maybe they want a war. Maybe they are trying to drag him in.

All the USA has to do is supply arms to Saudi Arabia and Israel. And otherwise wash their hands of it.

The Iraqi civilians and Iraqi army personnel that have been killed by US invasion is not even remotely comparable with what you claim Iran supported militia did, so don’t even go there.

If you want your bastard child has more playground in the region and your dictator friends have more advanced toys to play with, then you have to pay the price.

Just trying to tell you the truth, the USA is not going to let Iran erase Israel from the map. Time to give up that dream.

There's a lot of reservation about support of Saudi Arabia. I suppose it's more of a proxy war thing. Strong SA good as counterweight to Iran and Russia.

I guess it was a couple of years ago, I spoke to a veteran of the war in Iraq. I said, given what you know now, do you think the war was worth it.

He said, "Yes, if Iraqis have freedom and democracy and better lives."

I was a bit flabbergasted. At this point I think the average American does not think the lives of our soldiers are worth elections in Iraq. But presumably he had people he knew who died, and he thought it was worth it. Perhaps the alternative thought that it was all a waste is too hard to bear.

There is a strong isolationist feeling in the USA now because of the pointlessness of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. If there is ever war with Iran, I suspect there will be very few boots on the ground. It will be an air war and missiles and drones from the US side. With no attempt to take over the country or build anything.

Iran is not going to wipe Israel off the map, Israel would do it itself.

Do Iraqis have better lives now?? How about Afghans?

I don’t think Iran would let the hit and run strategy go smoothly as Iraq did. And I think US knows that. Otherwise it would have hit us many times by now.

I have had a few Afghan helpers and they are the most hard working and dedicated people i know. Some times between the work, we sit and talk about their beautiful country, their tradition, their culture and then we both quietly start crying hiding our face behind the coffee mugs thinking they would never have a home.

Iran is my home and has been their home for decades, we are not going to let anyone take it from us.

I apologize for coffee comment. I did not realize i am posting in a heavily LDS member message board. I would have said tea, but i assume tea is as offensive as coffee?? And I would never have hot chocolate, so coffee it is.

US should be scaling down its Middle East operations. That's the rationale for Obama-Clinton's "Pivot to Asia."

The high rates of suicide, alcohol and drug poisoning among whites catapulted this POS into the White House. Blame immigrants, blame Muslims, blame everyone but themselves.

I don't think people here care.

We hear that there are some women in Afghanistan that now have better lives. But who knows.

I heard 2nd hand a comment that stuck with me. She told a family member that having been in Afghanistan, on a tour, she said "It's not a country worth saving." I.e. the attempts of America to make it a better place would not work, and were foolish.

George Will was right. Get out of Afghanistan, and if you need to attack the terrorists, do so from the air.

The documentary Restrepo also pointed out absurd that conflict has been.

It's not up to us to make any other people's lives better. We can't. They have to do it themselves. They have to define "better." If they want to turn their soccer fields into places to hang women, what are we going to do about it?

Nobody in America wants to take over Iran. We are told that Iran is fueling conflict over the entire region. Iran says it is not.

Afghanistan is one of the best place to live. Amazing lands great climate superbly intelligent hardworking people, Akhone Khorasani, Rumi to name a few. So it IS worth saving. Although, Hadn’t the world superpower invaded it at the first place there would be no need to sacrifice US money and men to save it.

Fortunately we are living in an era that it is really hard to remain ignorant. There are enough sources to verify different claims directly or indirectly.

we are the people who wanted to get ride of Shah and have a democratic elected government. Look what has been done to us. From toppling down Mosadegh in 1935, till after the revolution, the Iraq-Iran war which had the whole world supporting Saddam for eight years and then pressuring our new inexperienced government with whatever means until now. Do you think Iran and its people have had any chance to build the better world for themselves?

I admit that we have used scary words and tools to push forward our agenda but its not because we are bad people it’s because we haven seen a lot of betrayal to trust the world and take off our gloves.

Religiously controlled governments concern western secular societies. Western societies also eschew patriarchies.

Thus, having a reclusive, religiously controlled patriarchy is difficult for western societies to understand and to trust.

Western involvement in Iran has been distasteful since the CIA overthrow in 1953. I agree with Mike, we shouldn't dictate to people what they don't want.

Don't want feminism? That shouldn't be ours to foist upon someone. Want religion to govern your life? So be it.

The language of Islam is hard for a Western mindset to understand.

You like honor killings in your country? Okay. What am I going to do about it? Send my children to die for your girls and women? No.

I’ve got news for Iran. WE ARE NOT IN IRAN. I repeat, we are not in Iran. Leave us alone. Stop trying to rule every country around you. Stop trying to erase Israel from the map. Stop trying to build nuclear weapons while at the same time shouting “DEATH TO AMERICA!”

Just live your lives in peace like your people (supposedly) want.

I have a question. Do Iranians really have freedom and fair elections as we understand it in the west?

Well, its hard for us to understand your system too. The fact that your country is basically breathing money and would do anything and everything to secure the power not for the sake of ordinary people but for a few powerful and yet dictates how to have a “democracy” around the world, is mind blowing.

I am not saying that we are perfect example of modern religious democracy or anything close to that but we are the people who wanted to have democracy like many other nations but you did dirty to us, multiple times, and you can’t expect us to trust you or your democracy.

Look at how in bed you are with the regional dictators. Do you think their people are too stupid to want to have a democracy? What would you do if for example there is a revolution in Saudi Arabia today? Would you help them? Or would you do whatever you can to tear them down like what you have been doing to us?

Living in peace requires respecting each other and respecting each other requires understanding each other, with isolating us you are never going to understand us and there will be no peace because of that.

You sound like Trump, using capitals and all. Not going to scare me off or convince me either.

No, you are not in Iran. We kicked you out, remember? But you have your big mouth wide open to swallow us off the map. Should I post a photo of hangry (hungry+ angry) Americans around us or its too obvious??

Out of curiosity, are you orange too?

I don’t know much about your election system but I know enough to say that you still can’t figure out how it works. You chose trump over Clinton! it still seems like a joke.

We, on the other hand, have a system to eliminate whoever has slightly different set of thinking and policies at the first place to make sure none of them get elected. lol

People may live under whatever system they wish. I would not wish to live under a system where religion has a significant influence on government.

If one looks at the three Abrahamic religions, you'll see the religions are largely responsible for many of the world's wars.

Totalitarian regimes tend only to benefit those at the top with no hope for those at the bottom but there are plenty of places where life could be enjoyable---- if you leave politics out of it.

I think it must be embarrassing for the average person in Iran to see Trump tweet out a request that Iran not shoots it's own citizen protesters.

Only to see protesters shot by their own government.

I don't think the average Iranian likes their government. What a destructive path that regime has led their people into. It's sad for them.

Its unfathomable for an average person in Iran to understand the level of embarrassment you are feeling for having Trump as an American let alone the president of the united state of America.

That's a complete misreading of America. I know the outside world has been trained to believe that Trump is a buffoon and that people in America hate him.

Most likely he's going to be reelected. One of the reasons is that he generally has stuck with what he promised to do. Most politicians never do so.

Iran is also misreading Trump if they think he is not willing to make a deal. But not like Obama. Obama would give away the house. Trump won't.

What would you do if you were Iran? Would you trust Trump to struck a deal with? What if your next president didn’t like Trump deal? Would you be willing to break Trump deal and build the new one to please new white house occupant?

See where it is going?

What house Obama gave away? You mean the 150b$? The money was ours. The court had ruled out US confiscating the money. American tax payers would have to pay the interest to Iranians for keeping the money. It was a win for you.

Or you could just continue down the path of being a pariah state. For what purpose? Why not join the modern world?

Why the continuous apocalyptic vision?

You didn’t answer my questions. Easy way out by making multiple vague questions?

We did join the “modern world” but you were the one who blew it. JCPOA was an international agreement and we stuck to it ,for more than a year, after the US unilaterally withdrew from it. May be you are not the “ modern world” as you claim to be.

No country has the classical definition of democracy, which means every person votes on every issue and also takes turns serving as the elected official. That is Solon's definition from ancient Greece. It doesn't exist.

The term as used in English misused. I can't tell you what the Farsi term, actually would mean, so maybe the terminology is confused in the translation.

We have a representative republic. And as I have said before, I don't want to change any government and prefer the people have the government that suits them. It's only how those countries impact our relations with allies, even imperfect allies such as Saudi Arabia or Israel, does it matter.

I would like to see the region stabilized, and I am more familiar with Sunni Islam than I am Shia Islam. I understand for example most of Iran is based on the Twelver faith, not the Sevener. I believe a secularization of the entire region would eliminate most of the conflicts. Religion is mostly to blame for the region's conflicts.

We actually have a very large middle class that is benefited by our economy, not just an upper elite as in most countries. An impoverished little Iranian girl, if she founds a company or discovers something wonderful, can dream of becoming and become a billionaire in our country. It is rare but it can happen.

As I observe the rest of the world, the chances of changing which economic sector one comes from, is hard in most other countries. Being middle class in the US means you enjoy a lot of benefits and services. Although I travel extensively, it is the country I am most comfortable living because the standard of living is high.

Do I like many of the politics? No. Yet, I won't be jailed if I protest or scream my dissent (I don't do that but could if I wanted to do so).

The view in America is that Iran is a fomenter of terrorism and conflict, particularly in the Middle East. And they are the prime destabilizer in the region.

Hence Trump backing out of the Obama deal.

What do you expect when the old president wore mom-jeans, and the new president doesn't? Things are going to be different.

You have the neo-con faction that wants to go to war with Iran, but they have been pushed aside because of the Iraq war fiasco. No one in America wants to be in another war in the Middle East.

We don’t care if he wears mom jeans or male thong, he is the US representative. Respect your damn signature and keep your damn promise.

He WAS the US representative. Now he is just a dude wearing mom jeans.

I don't know the language of the contract, but one assumes that one can back out of the contact. Just like right now, Iran is now following the contract as they agreed to with members of the EU.

I guess it would be easier if we had dictators for life, and Iran could deal with the same person for 30 years, sort of like Iran likes to do it.