Photos from today's protest
 

My goodness, what an awful mess.

http://dailynews.mycapture.com/mycap...4&move=F#Image

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...photogallery?1

I feel sorry for the missionaries in California right now. I hope they will be safe.

It's so wonderful to see the Gay movement showing their tolerant side.

Very intimidating indeed.

Freedom of speech. There's nothing wrong with what's happening there. It's their right. God bless America.

This is the worst possible outcome for LDS. Shame on your hateful church. It's disgraced itself again.

so only one side should have a first Amendment right of expression?

Did I say the LDS Church should be banned by government from doing what it did? Have you ever read Skokie? The American Nazi party has a right to parade in Jewish neighborhoods carrying Nazi symbols. The LDS church did nothing illegal, just stupid, self-destructive, and wrong.

Maybe they should give up the quest for Eqaulity and go back to school.

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2008-11/43227453.jpg

Very funny, Tex. Do you want to compare diplomas and (as my friend 3D would say) W-2's between the people who voted for and against Prop. 8?

This looks pretty peacable to me. I bet you're ashamed seeing it, deep inside.

"Bemused" would be my word of choice. There is such rich irony in "Eight is Hate" signs right next to "Go Back to Utah," "Vile Mormons," and "Mormon Scum."

You'd think these geniuses would at least make the Mormon = Moron wordplay, but I didn't see it anywhere.

Link?

These protests are nothing. The real damage has been done in terms of Mormonism's image among the credentialed classes, and the effects will be slow but inexorable and lasting. Romney is done. None of this surprises me, by the way.

Links at the top of the thread. First post.

God Bless Democracy

Too bad Prop 8 passed. If it had failed the massive LDS role in supporting it would have been quickly forgotten.

The word Mormon now officially means "gay-hater" for a lot of Californians and others across the country. That's unfortunate, in my opinion.

This is quite possibly the stupidest argument in this whole debate. And we hear it quite a bit, unfortunately.

The tolerance "debate" is clearly one of convenience for you based upon where your opinion stands.

If a group exercises their right to take a moral stand they're intolerant bigots.

If a group you agree with loses a debate DECIDED BY THE VOTERS, and they exercise their right to take a stand spewing all kinds of bitter hate filled venom...then of course it's tolerant because we're bigots now...right? ;)

You need to get some guts and decide what the hell you stand for Jeff. Cause at this point your hypocritical stance is making you look like the Lloyd Christmas of the board.

And one that appears to be way over your head.

Really?

Show me a link where thousands of LDS Members are gathered at the local Gay and Lesbian Alliance chapter with signs saying "Get out Faggots." and "Queers Suck"

If you can find that then you can admit to showing some consistency.

Thanks in advance.

You're back to being the consistently inconsistent Jeff who is too gutless to admit when he's wrong.

I am mostly saddened by the photos. I recognize their right to protest and I did not support 8 but it still makes me sad to see so many people so angry at the church and Mormons.

Although, I did LOL at the "Go back to Utah" sign.

I am curious. Where did you get this inflated view of your intellect. You ought to go back and read your posts, they actually come from a person who is stupid, self-destructive and wrong.

Yes, I value my intellect and opinion as much as you do yours.

Hardly. Those are some pretty hypocritical folks marching around the temple grounds.

The stupidest argument in this whole debate is: "Gay is not a choice. Who would ever choose to be gay?"

I would be worried about going to church on Sunday if I lived there. Those protestors looked very angry.

I'm embarrassed for those protestors. That is just sad.

I am not sure of what you are saying. You aren't saying being Gay is a choice they make.

Maybe some do, but I think claiming that all gays make the choice to be gay was an argument that basically was given up on by people, with IQ's over 50, years ago.

No worries, the Church members will be fine, the missionaries will be fine. The work will move forward. I am doing my part, my six boys will all go on missions, their kids will go on missions, it is a never ending cycle. The "doomsday" type of attitude of some on this board is exagerated. This is not the end of the Church's influence for good in our Country. Had we stayed out of the prop 8 debate and it failed, we would have had the same enemies today.

If yuo do fear for your safety, get one of those NO on Prop 8 buttons, and wear it as you walk to Church. YOu can take it off when you walk into the foyer.

Yes, it's not like the majorioty of people in the state agreed with the church's position on prop 8, after all.

I'm saying the following is a lame argument for gay-by-birth:

"It is illogical to choose to be gay. Therefore, no one would ever choose to be gay on purpose. Therefore, gay is not a choice."

That's 2nd grade reasoning at its finest.

OK, so you agree with me. The majority of gays are born gay.

No. Just saying there are better reasons to argue in favor of gay-by-birth than that one.

I don't even know how to make an educated guess on that. I've known gay people who have said they made a choice to be gay and I've known gay people who said they were born that way.

Perhaps you know a lot more gay people than I do, but I couldn't even begin to form an opinion one way or the other on which is more common.

Nice dodge.

Tex gets worked over on this argument in another thread only to come to this one claiming "2nd grade logic at its finest". I don't deny it's 2nd grade logic. Yup, my 2nd grade son would understand this point and move on.

It's not a dodge, I didn't get--Heh--"worked over" and I'm happy to repeat it any thread you'd like.

So tell me...was this your final clinching refutation of simple 2nd grade logic (classic Tex by the way--"I've already answered this...go find it. Never mind that no one seems satisfied by that answer..."
http://cougarguard.com/forum/showpos...&postcount=150

Or was it this one?
http://cougarguard.com/forum/showpos...&postcount=152

Yeah, you sure showed everyone. Issue settled.

ER, you're becoming unhinged. That first link has nothing to do with gay-by-birth. It's about a comparison OrangeUte didn't like of homosexuality to other personal challenges.

That second link is meant as a joke ... a play on the words flaunt, flout, flauta, etc. and is completely unrelated.

If you're going to beat your chest, at least try to stay focused.

Oh brother...I've been through this non-responding, dodging routine with you before...

You know very well that the first link was your second-to-last response to the point that "Very few people would choose the gay lifestyle"; the second post, while I posted it in jest, was your final response. Neither very convincing, despite the ease with which this argument is apparently refuted.

I'm not playing these games with you anymore. It's a complete waste of time (as opposed to a semi-complete waste of time that all other discussions on here are...).

In 1982 I was going through a divorce. Our counselor was a former counselor employeed by the church. He said something shocking to me. He said, we knew and so did the church that many gays do not have a choice as to their sexual preference. We counsel them that the only way they can be active members in the church is to practice abstenance. He said the idea that all gays can be converted to being heterosexuals is just not factual.

That is the first time I bought the idea some are just born that way. I don't approve of the lifestyle being pushed though in case their are those who might make the choice.

wow. Your church is way ahead of mine. We brag about the ones we "convert." Print it in the church bulletins and everything.

Like all of us, Tex sometimes steps in a pile of shit with his opinions. Unlike the rest of us he refuses to recognize the smell and get the shit off of his shoes. He keeps trying to dance around the fact his shoes stink.

I went back and reviewed the last several posts, and I see what you're getting at. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

It's quite simply really: OrangeUte didn't respond further, so neither did I. If you'd like to continue the conversation calmly, I'd be happy to.

The second post was not my "final response" but was truly just a joke.

What would help is if you just calmed down. I'm truly not trying to be difficult, but it's hard to communicate when you get so emotional. Sometimes I don't understand what you mean, and attacking me doesn't help.

No kidding? Wow.

So how does that square with the Proclamation on the Family? It's a man made proclamation? Or God doesn't care how he made them, he's going to forbid them from marrying?