excommunication in other churches
 

Is there a church out there, or even any social organization, that calls excommunication primarily "an act of love"?

Is this something unique to Mormonism?

Is there some kind of official statement from the church calling excommunication an act of love?

Here's a Catholic calling it an act of love:

http://romancleric.blogspot.com/2006...-and-love.html

Not sure. But this link says President Taylor considered the great flood to be an act of love, i.e. mass drowning of the human race.

http://www.lds.org/braille/PearlofGr...dentManual.txt

In a way that thinking is kind of scary. You could see how a suicide bomber might consider his act to be one of great love.

I thought your original question was is there any church out there besides ours that calls it an act of love. I guess you already had an answer to the question??????

My question was is there any official statement from "the" church calling it an act of love.

So Texite mullahs exist in other faiths. How comforting.

Tex, calls it loving as often as he cans. He considers himself the ultimate authority, so you don't need to look any further.

One thing is for sure. You can do many wierd and obscene things in the name of religion. If God tells you to do something, it makes it right no matter what the act is. That is what makes people who believe totally in blind obedience scary to me.

And if you were a leader wishing to keep the masses in check, wouldn't you rely upon divine authority?

Either that or I would put a tremendous amount of fear into the masses like the communists have done or people like Hitler and Hussein.

If children are being born into situations where their environment is so utterly wicked and evil, could it be that a loving God would destroy those people so they could no longer reproduce and allow His children to be born into less evil circumstances?

Maybe that's how President Taylor was looking at it.

and that's how fundamentalist Islam looks at the morally corrupt West.

No?

Fundamentalist Islam <> God

I"ve heard it before but it doesn't sound too persuasive.

Kill everybody to love them. Islam loves that theory.

ah yes, when my god orders it, it is ok. When your false god orders it, it is murder.

Because God is God, I look at anything he does as an act of love. I can't say the same for those who act in his name.

In the sense the excommunication is a principle of the church, I can see how it can be an act of love. However, since the excommunication process is handled by human beings, the excommunication in all cases isn't or couldnt' be an act of love. I am sure there are cases where it is an act of anger, revenge, image control, etc.

The Blood Atonement wikipedia article also used the words that it is done "out of love" since the doctrine was that someone had to shed their own blood to repent, it was helping someone repent.

I'm the only one here apparently that actually agrees with Toscano that excommunication is a violent act. She had an agenda and she was dramatic about it, but it's not the first time I've heard that kind of sentiment.

There are lots of aggressive acts you can do in the name of the Lord. If you have God on your side, really you can get away with anything.

Do you really think excommunication is a violent act or that the act "can be" violent. I know of cases where I think excommunication really helped the person.

I know cases where a dad beating the shit out of his kid helped him too. I don't say that totally sarcastically, either, because as a parent or as a church leader sometimes you really are exasperated on what to do.

Yes, I do think it can be violent. I don't think it's right, at least how it is applied today. Though, it's becoming less frequent and trending the right direction.

Who carried out the "flood order"?

OK, I was thinking in the context of the original question and excommunication being an act of love. I guess a violent act can be an act of love.

Did you bring your leather, whip and chain? I understand S&M practitioners are great lovers.

"This is going to hurt me more than it is going to hurt you." :-)

How often does the church seek out extremely inactive members, get the scoop on what sins they're committing and then excommunicate them? In my experience, essentially never.

I see the purpose of excommunication as primarily two-fold:

1. To prevent those from participating in the church that are actively trying to participate.

2. To provide a path whereby they can return into the good graces of the church and once again participate in the church.

Is that motivated by "love"? I think it often is ONE of the motivations.

when Jefe has doled out the full santos and when I have doled out (just once) the full finderson, trust me, it is not motivated by love.

You're comparing CB and CG to church discipline?

I am saying that protection of the community is usually the number one reason that people are kicked out of communities.

It never happened, so God gets a pass on this one.

Well, I think that was more or less captured in reason #1 that I stated above.

Exactly. How could you keep discipline without it.

Take the honor code at BYU, I know Indy I'm obsessed, that honor code is there and it's enforcement is to control the community (students). No other reason.

And Section 10 page 105 of the current handbook agrees with you:

"Consequently, transgressions that significantly impair the good name or moral influence of the Church may require the action of a disciplinary council."

(My access to the Handbook is facilitated by dating the Executive Secretary)

So far, we have excommunication compared to:

1. The purging death of the flood
2. Blood atonement
3. Islamic jihad
4. Getting the "full santos" on CB

Oh, and the token post about what an jerk mullah Tex is. It's like Where's Waldo: there's one in every thread.

I love this place.

Does he know you date him not so you can hold the priesthood, but because of his keys to the Good Book?

What do you compare it to? Would you rather people shut up and not talk about it?

spooning. that's what he would compare it to.

Church discipline makes me think about the ultimate purposes of the atonement. Is there any analogy that truly encapsulates that?

Church discipline is about protecting and controlling the community, nothing more, nothing less.

You might have the real concept down, but for me church discipline reminds me of dealing with children.

Do you mean that through the atonement and grace of Christ self-righteous men who unintentionally or intentionally cut off sinners from the church and their perceived access to God can realize their errors, repent of their sins, and become more like Christ? Then, yes I agree, it is a proper analogy.

Matthew 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees,
hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men

No, that's not what I meant.