The church has spoken...
 

http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/...marriage-votes

Go ahead and disect...

Woohoo! I'm not in trouble for voting no!

Tex, you have to work with me to help build the future. The Church said so. ha ha!

That's so bigoted.

Racist.

If you refuse to work with me to build the future, you are in open rebellion against the Church and its leaders.

You were already grossly incorrect about North Carolina. Please don't make the same prideful mistake now.

I am willing to look beyond your repeated tasteless sexist and sacriligeous comments and reach across the aisle.

For all this my anger is not turned away, but my hand is stretched out still.

I want to thank all of the Californians that voted yes for saving us. God was ready to turn us into salt or something, but you changed his mind. I will be eternally grateful.

"Allegations of bigotry or persecution made against the Church were and are simply wrong..."

I love this quote - it's my favorite... The Church is saying - we don't like being called bigots, and you are wrong for calling us that because we say you are wrong! Nevertheless, if it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and looks like a duck etc etc - - - then it's a duck! no amount of calling it something else changes the fact that it's a duck!

The church's opposition to prop 8 was bigotted and the campaign the church ran was nothing more than spreading fear and making false claims.

Heh. Losing sucks, doesn't it?

Link? Please provide a link to some example of the so-called bigotry by the Church (not members on their own). The Church itself.

Amen, brother.

Did you see any of the Yes on 8 commercials?

"Before it accepted the invitation to join broad-based coalitions for the amendments, the Church knew that some of its members would choose not to support its position. Voting choices by Latter-day Saints, like all other people, are influenced by their own unique experiences and circumstances. As we move forward from the election, Church members need to be understanding and accepting of each other and work together for a better society."

I hate to distract form the rapier-like with of so many of you, but what hilarious comments do you have about this? Or did you just pass over that part? Or is this all just one continual joke?

ANd they are bigoted simply becaseu you say so? Sholdn't you apply the same standards of proof to yourself that you are whining about when broadly painting the church? SU has gotten to you, and it is not pretty.

Yes I did and I do not think they are bigoted,as a general matter. I was disturbed by some things I heard members say, but the ads (which were not the church, but the coalition, btw, and there is very much a difference) were not, generally, bigoted.

It does not suck for me as much as it does for my friends and family that are gay, but you are right, it does suck. It sucks to have to have individual bigotry by members of the church validated. It sucks to see marriages between 2 loving gay people end. It will suck to see the marriages that have already occurred between 2 loving gay people invalidated. You are right Tex losing this battle does suck. It is a sad sad day today.

Congratulations Yes on 8 voters. Your right to discriminate was reinstated. Let's all throw a party.

You're welcome. You're not very good at clever hyperbole, but you're welcome even so.

This is a crock. It ignores the many discussions we have had on thiw site in the past few weeks and sinks well below the thoughtful opinions you typically post.

I'll chock this kind of overreaction up to emotion.

Well that may be. I am just frustrated. It is a sad day for me and my family. Nobody likes being called a bigot. I try not to throw that word around because it is so confrontational. It is a "fighting word", but prop 8 does discriminate against gay people. It prevents them from marrying the person they love. To me that is sad. I am sorry if I am lashing out.

Once again, it is a hollow victory. This fact that they even feel the need to issue a statement like this illustrates that the battle was "won" but at tremendous cost. The church will be paying for this for a long time, IMO.

Yes. Didn't see any bigotry there. But I guess that depends on your definition of the word.

Is the Law of Chastity bigoted? Does that mean we hate heteros who have pre-marital sex? What about the WoW?

The stuff people are willing to call bigotry today disgusts me.

oh come on. let's not get into word-play and semantics. the church was every bit as much a part of the movement as its individual members. it's like telling me i can't pierce the corporate veil even though it is just a ruse. the church condones same sex marriage because it is intolerant and bigotted on that issue. the church is intolerant toward any other opinion than its own and the message that ultimately went out (with members money, but with the church's influence deeply felt) was that or fear of something different and misunderstood, and unfortunately the prejudice being expressed was passive/aggressive and the church would never come straight out and say what it wanted to... that gay people creep us out and disgust us but we don't want to try to understand them or this issue - it's black and white!

i don't know of MANY definitions of bigotry. i'm sure that there's only one... however, if i had to define the concept, i would say it is an unwavering dedication to prejudice irregardless of any argument otherwise.

i dont' have time to grab a dictionary but i would imagine it's something like that.

the church won't meet with gay members on the issue but instead puts out statements that cling to faulty logic and reasoning. bigotted. that they rely on a claim of deity/inspiration doesn't change the application of the term biggoted to the conduct except as a justification - not an exception.

Would you support an amendment prohibiting people who broke the Law of Chastity or Word of Wisdom from marrying? If so, I would say you are a bigot.

very well put, Lebowski.

Oh stop, already. It's a statement that recognizes it's a highly emotional issue, and it was pretty stand-up of them to phrase it that way (not that I would expect anything else).

To listen to you, you'd think the church should roll over anytime it has a position that is unpopular. With that attitude, we never would've made it out of the year 1831.

Those who hear that message are just wallowing in their own anger. They have no interest in understanding the church's position either.

I grow weary of hearing the lame apologetics for the militaristic wing of the gay agenda.

I don't know what was won and what was lost.

The definition of marriage is preserved in California. Okay.

What did the Church lose? Favor with gays? Did it ever have any favor with gays? So, can it lose something it never had?

It invested political capital, and preserved some capital by winning. Had it lost, that would have mattered, because then it would have lost political capital and not won what it sought out to win.

LOL. Thanks for that image.

It loses those gay members of the church who wish to remain a part of the church, but don't feel like they have a place.

This is smart thinking.

Come on. Lots of straight people aren't happy with this.

Were they people we had any favor with?

the church had favor with me, some of which is lost because of this incident.

But no one's suggesting that we create legal measures against hetero fornication, or that we end common law marriage.

Do they? Homosexuality is SUCH a problematic issue and my heart goes out to those who have to deal with it either personally or in their family. I have several gay friends who are LDS or former LDS and I really have no answer for them.

But the bottom line is this. Homosexual relationships are NOT in concert with the gospel. They just aren't. That has been made clear over and over. Since the family is central to the plan of Salvation, how do you reconcile homosexuality. You can't.

So how exactly do you make a place for them in the Church? Love them, support them in their rightous endeavors, etc. absolutely. But the bottom line is that they are not going to feel a part of the church with family relationships being such a big part of it.

I really have no answer. It's one of the "god will sort it all out" things to me.

I can see the calculus of the Church, even though I would not have made the same decision.

Again, if I were gay, I'd be outta here, even without this action. And I'd advise friends and family the same. This Church does not have what gays need. It's not very singles friendly either, but that's another matter. Maybe this is a silent way of admitting that.

your error is that nobody is asking the church to make room for them at the church with prop 8 or similar measures. the church's spin included that prop 8 was a threat to religious freedoms. however, the proposition was about allowing or disallowing them to have the same civil rights as heterosexual people who can marry. it has nothing to do with the religious beliefs or organization's rights under the first amendment.