War is hell
 

We had a psychiatrist give us a presentation about her work at the VA with veterans coming back from Iraq. Many of them have PTSD.

One of the more heart wrenching things she told us about was her description of veterans telling her about running over children. Convoys were not allowed to stop for any reason. If a child came out in the road, they were ordered to continue over them. And so they did. And the faces haunt them.

Hell is seeing that face every night for the rest of your life.

One of the YM in my ward did 2 tours in Iraq. He was a convert at age 17 and really only stayed on the right path for a few months. He was a very troubled soul, but I grew close to him and tried to help him as much as I could. I got a call from him a few months back after he'd been home a few days from his second tour, and he was very drunk. He was telling me that he'd been diagnosed with PTSD and that he didn't want to live anymore. He thanked me for being a true friend and told me that he'd always believe the gospel was true even though he didn't feel he could ever live it. He told me goodbye and hung-up. He refused to tell me where he was or anything like that. The next day I got a call from his wife asking if he'd spoken to me the night before. I told her that he had. She asked "how did he sound"? And I said, "he sounded like he was going to hurt himself, but I had nobody to call. I didn't even know what city he was in". She told me that he'd attempted suicide right after he hung up with me. Luckily, just before slashing his wrists he called his local Foxnews station and told them where his body would be found. The MP's found him just in time to save his life. He's been in a psych. hospital since then and I've yet to hear from him.

If it's anything like Texas he will be out of the hospital very quickly. I hope he gets good help.

I know what it is like to be called by someone who says he is about to kill himself. It is not a good feeling.

That he called you must mean you really held a special place for him.

Yeah, that was a long night and I had a real sick feeling from the time he hung up. I was totally helpless, I didn't even know he had a wife until that phone conversation.

You name something horrible and it's happened to the poor kid. Mother left him on a doorstep, never knew who his father was. Beaten by foster parents throughout his entire youth, finally placed in one of those wilderness scared straight type camps (sadly this was his best life experience). Alcoholic since age 14. He really needs help, but I don't know how he'll ever get it.

That's an amazing story, Steel.

I deal with these guys on a daily basis where I work. We are all looking for the signs of PTSD and battle stress.

I think if you look throughout history PTSD has always been there, it is not a new phenomenon. It was just never discussed and those who could not develop healthy defense and coping mechanisms fell by the wayside and ended up homeless and on the streets.

The Trib has an ongoing series on some Utah vets and the difficulties they've had since returning. Some of them are heartbreaking.

Coming Home: Nothing but War Will Do
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_7434231

Back from War, his Battle Begins
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_4814502

Deployment takes toll on lawyers life
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_5639862

Desert demons haunt Iraq veterans return
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_5105049

This thread inspired me to try and contact my friend again. He actually answered the phone tonight and told me that his wife had possession of his phone since the suicide attempt and so he didn't get any of my previous calls. He told me that his wife has left and divorced him since that night, and that he's not allowed contact with his child yet (perhaps for very good reasons). Not exactly a prescription for improved mental health. I can't imagine how his story will ever end happily, but I can hope. Anyway, thanks Mike for making me think about him today. I might have waited another couple months otherwise.

One thing to remember is that PTSD is not a new phenomenon. Our grandfather who fought in WWII / WWI / Vietnam / Korea and I would even venture to say earlier wars all had to deal with PTSD. It was just that no ever knew why uncle X always keeps to himself, or why cousin Y drinks a lot and his marriages always fall apart.

I think about one of the greatest men that I have known who recently passed away this past year. He served 3 tours in vietnam was highly decorated and wounded several times. He has been there, done that and seen it all. I always wondered how he handled his nightmares and the ghosts of memories that haunted him? I look at his life that was completely and totally dedicated to serving other people around him, not wallowing in his own self pitty for the wounds that he sustained while defending a country that would shun him and his comrades when they returned. Somehow I think that this dedication, and "loosing himself" in the service of other people is what got him through those tough times.

Amazingly enough, the industrialized society and country that we have today has been built up by men (mostly) who were able to deal with their "PTSD" sustained in WWII and build up our economy, culture and society that we have today.

Again, I think that the key is getting these guys pluged into the right system.


Steelblue - Your friend, if he is out of the military needs to get counseling that can be arranged through the VA. If they give him a hard time about it, call the local television station and they will gladly run a story about him. If he is still Active duty, he needs to talk with his NCO and his company commander, they will then get him pluged into the system that is in place to get him the help he needs. A big part of which is to realize that this is common, see and be with other vets that are having the same problems.

I asked him if he's still getting help and his reply was rather vague but he seemed to be saying "if I do get help it has to come through the VA and that's a big hassle". I'm not sure, but it seems he may have been discharged from the Corps early because of all of this. He said he's no longer active duty. Will they boot a kid early who becomes too big a hassle with alcoholism and PTSD symptoms/suicide attempts?

My dad who did two tours in Nam said the exact same thing.

No End in Sight is the name of a documentary movie that just came out on DVD. It goes into the details of how America got into this war, and why it has gone the way it has gone. It is a harrowing look at the war from many perspectives, but it is as depressing as hades. Among the several blunders that could have turned the war in our favor: preventing the looting of Baghdad. The city was near destroyed AFTER the conflict. The dismissal of the Iraqi army - what did we think those thousands of military trained young men were going to do after they lost their jobs and had no way to provide for their families.
It is a sad depressing war for sure.

It is usually for other things that are indirectly related to the PTSD sxs, (ie. alcohol, drug abuse, irrational and poor behavior).

We watched about an hour of training videos the other day trying to raise the awareness of this among the ranks of soldiers. Unfortunately, many of the soldiers suffering from PTSD see this a sign of weakness and that somehow they are less of a soldier for having these problems. They don't see that all the other guys around them are suffering from the exact same things and they are all afraid that they will get black listed by their command. If they would just see that they are not alone, and that many of the soldiers they work side-by-side with are going through the same thing, they would be able to access a great support group.

Steel - Encourage your buddy to go get help through the VA. It is not that big of a hassel especially with all of the media attention surrounding this issue right now.

This really isn't a thread about what went wrong in the war. That would be a long one. Fact is that all war is depressing and miserable, in every war there are huge mistakes made. Even the ones that we won.

Personally, I laugh at the pundits (especially those politicians) who call for immediate withdrawl from Iraq. They know damn well that we cannot do that. If we did, the whole region would errupt and destablize. That is why despite multiple opportunites in Congress, they haven't taken the steps to make that happen. They pay lip service to it, to keep the moveon.org-ers happy, but they know they can't leave. That and they don't want to be the party to own defeat in Iraq.

Things are turning around over there. I can tell you just from the marked decrease in casualties that we are seeing comming from theatre. This as well as what I am hearing from the guys comming back.

It makes me happy to see that Americans hate the war. Everyone should hate the war. I hate it, they guys I see wounded hate it and the people fighting over there hate it. I dread the day when we enjoy war and killing. This was a hallmark of the decline of the Nephite civilizations and a mark of a wicked society.

Thanks for the advice.