John Dehlin headed towards a Disciplinary Council
 

and likely excommunication. I"m not sure how useful this is. Even though I am no big fan of Dehlin.

http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/a/a/e/aaed...9ec3bc132101a4

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/16/us...773522000&_r=0

good point made in the comments.

our tolerance is demonstrated by the fact we are not beheading him.

This is useful for the following reason:

He has turned up the anti-Mormon rhetoric full blast. Some of his donors would only remain donors if he were a member. This would cut off a lot of the funding for what he does.

He'll have to rely on the exmo world, I think, because "transitioning" Mormons aren't big enough of a pool to fund his endeavor.

I don't think he's in it for the money, because he could be making more elsewhere. But if he wants to be a rock star doing this Mormon thing, he needs funding.

He does seem to like being on the NYT rolodex.

He podcasts about religion. How boring is that?

The only people I see mentioning him are Mormons.

I'm sure most USA Mormons have never heard of him.

Nathan Givens (Terryl Givens' son) chimes in.

http://difficultrun.nathanielgivens....ch-discipline/

Apparently, Dehlin concealed a letter from the Stake President stating that SSM/OW were not reasons for the discipline, and didn't release it until the media ran off with the narrative.

Dehlin responded, but did not address withholding the letter.

http://mormonstories.org/reasons-for...inary-council/

I many cases I think you make up your mind about the character of the person, make a decision, and then gather the facts to justify the decision. That's not a comment about disciplinary courts, that's a comment about human nature.

That's why thousands of Mormons can support OW and gay marriage, yet are not excommunicated, nor disciplined at all, even when they do so semi-publicly.

The truth is somewhere in the middle. OW and gay marriage have likely played a prominent role, but not to the degree that the media is saying, and Dehlin I think likes to play up that angle, because it is the most sympathetic.

I don't know Dehlin's work well. I've known of him a long time, but never dived into his stuff. maybe listened to one podcast. Whether fair or not, I've found him irritating.

I founded this website in response to the owner of cougarboard.com not allowing free conversations on religious topics. His board, his call. So I started this board. With Archaea at my side. Archaea did most of the promoting and I did all the technical stuff. And for a time this was a place of conversation on a number of interesting and difficult topics. Probably not unlike what Dehlin was dealing with.

At no point did I attempt to enrich or aggrandize my station. I feel like at most I was an invisible hand, and I let the site grow organically and democratically. Eventually I found myself with a beast that was somewhat intemperate and ill-mannered, and I made a decision that I needed to exercise greater control (this was after I had suspended myself from posting on this website). This was not well-received (and probably not well-executed on my part), and boom, the exodus started. And I'm fine with that. My work was done. I no longer had a role, nor did I want a role.

But through that experience, I think I can relate to some things that Dehlin must have experienced. You get caught up in minutiae and little things seem like big things. It doesn't take much to transition from well-meaning helpful person, to savior and hero, and finally to martyr. Dehlin occupies roles in different worlds, he sits on piles of bones and can't forget a one. He sees himself as central, historical, part of a movement. Perhaps even the leader of a movement, or the inspiration for it. Instead of just owning a little website that discusses issues, he feels like he has become a national figure. And perhaps in a way he has. Surely this is no accident, he tells himself. Destiny requires this.

I don't know how self-aware Dehlin is. I suspect he has become quite myopic, living in Utah, with all his friends and connections, battle lines drawn. It's like he is incapable of taking a step back and seeing what it all is. Or perhaps he doesn't care to.

Being the leader of anything is quite overrated. And being the leader of something and being almost uniformly rejected is not a lot of fun either. Walking away ain't easy. The church is asking Dehlin to walk away from the empire in his mind. He is not going to. At least not now.

from time to time since this controversy started, I have browsed Dehlin's facebook page.

I have 4 friends who are friends with Dehlin. One has had her records removed from the church. Another has left the church, not sure if she is still on the rolls officially or not. A third I have been told has decided to not attend anymore, don't know anymore details. And the fourth, I have no idea on his status.

My impression is that he very much more favored by ex-Mormons than he is believing/practicing Mormons.

sounds more and more apostate.

http://www.npr.org/2015/02/01/382876...xcommunication

I didn't listen. Just read the article. I think he is feeling very comfortable as an excommunicated apostate Mormon. The church failed him (and of course everyone else). Martyrs are a dime a dozen these days.

John Dehlins's FB post:

Sorry, John, you are no Sterling McMurrin. And you John will be excommunicated because you are in fact a non-believing person with desires to usurp. That makes you an apostate. That's fine--you are living by your conscience, and your conscience has taken you away from the church. But let's not pretend you haven't created some significant distance here.

Having said that, I would add. I hope one day he comes back. And I don't expect he would be a Mormon that dotted every i and crossed every t. But with just enough desire and faith to follow along the wagon train.

John seems to be a very passionate man. I expect eventually he will tire of the company of anti's. He will find it boring.

We may get news on this later today.

Dehlin, anticipating being ex'd, says he will continue to help ex-mos and non-orthodox mormons in "transition."

He makes something like 80k per year from his podcast.

I was thinking, he may end up a lot like Jerald and Sandra Tanner. They've been helping Mormons transition out for a long time (he's dead now).

If the church wishes to reduce Dehlin's personal influence, then they ought to empower the alternative persons in the blogosphere who also tackle controversial issues and help people make sense of them. I'm not exactly sure what "empowering" means in this case. It could just mean making clear signals to the liberal-ish blogs that they are in good stead and serve a useful role.

There are multiple ways in which he is not McMurrin.

1. McMurrin wasn't exed.
2. McMurrin was an intellectual. Dehlin has said he doesn't like to read, so of course he needs to read more McMurrin.

He made 90K this past year. I've been saying the same thing: The Church needs substitutes, including people along the same line of work who help deal with faith crises.

I think there are substitutes out there, they just don't have the same "fame" as Dehlin.

A lot of people say that much of Dehlin's support comes from anti-Mormons. I don't disagree. 3 of my FB friends who have friended Dehlin are either apostate or unhappy and inactive. The fourth's status is unknown.

Dehlin never made much of an impact on this website. It wasn't like we were "Dehlin this and Dehlin that.

Dehlin actually posted twice on cougarguard.

http://cougarguard.com/forum/member.php?u=463

He was a lurker in his staylds days.

And allowing others to compare him to Hugh B. Brown on his facebook page. Rich.

Now the Church is trying to correct the media if they reported that John Dehlin was being excommunicated for OW and SSM. This is getting good.

link?

How would Church HQ know what he was being disciplined for, exactly, if the whole thing is handled at the local level?

After all, it is President King who is using his judgment. I don't think we have any information about him coordinating at a higher level. I suppose that could be happening, but that's not the impression we have been given.

I could see the church making an official statement that support for ORDAIN women and gay marriage is not generally grounds for discipline. I believe an oral statement was made to that effect at the recent news conference. But no official statement that I know of. Then that would effectively be direction to the stake president, and other local church leaders out there in the world.

Interesting article on whether the Open Stories Foundation violates 501c3 orgaization rules.

http://bycommonconsent.com/2015/02/0...as-tax-exempt/

Maybe Dehlin needs some pro bono work from that Bob guy in Canadia.

He gone.

Dehlin felt like he had to respond to the Trib's article on his compensation.

Kind of funny. In an unintentional way.

http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/215583...t-of-the-story

Translation: Peggy, I thought you had my back. That's really bad timing. Please, go dig up dirt on the GAs instead.

David and Goliath. Seems like he is just now a couple steps removed from asking for a sip of vinegar.

That was funny.

Dehlin last logged on 5 years ago.

Has Dehlin contributed anything original to Mormon thought?

I think that's why he has wrapped himself up in the feminist and gay issues, because if he didn't, what exactly would be his unique platform?

And certainly it's not unique or original to support gays and feminists.

At the end of the day, how will be be remembered? As a historian? No. As an academic? No. As an intellectual? No. Just a blogger that attracted controversy and tried to start a movement.

I actually don't know that he will be remembered.

Kate Kelly I think will be noted to have had a greater impact, because she's actually getting into doctrinal questions and history.

Bycommonconsent was not pleased when Dehlin said that they don't believe in the historicity of the Book of Mormon.

http://bycommonconsent.com/2015/02/10/my-belief/

From Dehlin's facebook page:

John, you may not be able to see it, but you are actually different from them.

Bad form??? How about factually incorrect?

Listen to this passive-aggressive sleight of hand on Peggy Stack

Why didn't the church respond to the transcript? That would've been a slam dunk.

We better give him a break. He's been under a lot of stress, and heaven knows many of us lash out under stress.

I listened to about half his RadioWest podcast, where he announced his excommunication. He didn't sound particularly bitter or angry. And I can kind of imagine myself in his shoes, just muddling along and thinking I had been railroaded.

But you know at the end of the day, if you are as influential and in the news as much as him when it comes to Mormon issues, if you are going around saying that the church isn't true, that the Book of Mormon is fiction, church leaders are wrong....the writing is on the wall. You either have to walk it back, keep it to yourself, or leave. We can argue about whether that has to be the case. Whether we can have active dissenters in the church and they can remain as members. But he had come to place where if he wasn't an active dissenter, he was very close to it. And that's what led to this present situation. At least that's my take.

I didn't watch the MSNBC interview, but I heard he was bitter during that one. In any case, I wouldn't expect him to. Narcissists live for matyrdom.

I haven't heard him originate a single idea, but he did publish a few peer-reviewed papers from his gay Mormon study. His charisma enabled him to muster a large research team to work on it. The study is awfully biased, not methodologically sound.

Yes, and in addition she has already moved the needle. I think she's a dufus though.

Kelly is the wrong person to lead the movement.

Since she is ex'ed, she won't be leading the movement.

Legal? Yes.

Non-profit management? Yes, he needs that.

Accounting? Track and take care of the money. Yes, needs that.

Technology? Just throw in something generic to make it four things. :)

Well John my dream is to run an online sports message board where people can talk about anything they want to. I'd really like to get in on the ground floor, you know, be an "early group". I wonder if you'll let me. I promise I'll be nice and not drive everyone away.