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-   -   The story on Craig Jessop (http://www.cougarguard.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18775)

Cali Coug 04-23-2008 07:53 PM

The story on Craig Jessop
 
His departure has a facinating story. Jessop used to report directly to President Hinckley. Following Hinckley's death, President Monson decided that too many people reported directly to him, including Jessop, so he had them report to an intermediary (probably good governance).

I can't confirm for certain, but I am reasonably confident that Jessop was asked to report to President Packer.

The week before Jessop quit, the choir had three black soloists perform during its broadcast in a bit of a revivalist theme. That was on a Sunday. On Thursday, Jessop told a small group of the choir that they would need to meet for a special practice on Saturday morning. On Friday, Jessop was told to meet with the person he reports to. That meeting clearly did not go well.

On Saturday, Jessop never showed up for practice. On Sunday, he didn't show up for the choir's 8 am practice prior to the broadcast. He also didn't show up at 9 am for the broadcast (and it was his turn to conduct for the week). Nobody heard from him on Monday.

On Tuesday, the choir held practice, and he showed up, walked straight up to the stand, read his resignation letter, and walked straight off. On Wednesday, all references to Jessop were removed from the choir's website.

I have heard that the Friday conversation involved a discussion about how the choir should only sing songs that were written by Mormon's "inspired of the Lord." It could have been precipitated by the Sunday performance of a gospel variety.

Since the new conductor took over, the choir, almost without exception, has performed only church hymns. This is a big issue with Pres. Packer, so it would confirm my suspicion that he is the intermediary Jessop met with.

If so, it is sad. Mormons may have the gift of the Holy Ghost, but to act like they have a monopoly on inspiration is naive and insulting.

Jeff Lebowski 04-23-2008 07:56 PM

Where did you hear this?

If true, that is a very sad story.

Tex 04-23-2008 08:00 PM

If you can't even confirm who the conversation was with, how are we supposed to believe what the topic was?

Cali Coug 04-23-2008 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski (Post 212333)
Where did you hear this?

If true, that is a very sad story.

Someone who definitely knows, and wouldn't say who the contact person is (though they know for certain too) because they didn't want that person to look bad.

MikeWaters 04-23-2008 08:03 PM

Does Jessop have the guts to tell his story? If he tells his story will he be excommunicated, if it is like you said?

If your story is true, I can only imagine how upset Elder Packer must be with Gladys Knight.

Jeff Lebowski 04-23-2008 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cali Coug (Post 212339)
Someone who definitely knows, and wouldn't say who the contact person is (though they know for certain too) because they didn't want that person to look bad.

Well, given the circumstances surrounding the resignation, your story sounds consistent with everything I have heard.

myboynoah 04-23-2008 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cali Coug (Post 212330)
His departure has a facinating story. Jessop used to report directly to President Hinckley. Following Hinckley's death, President Monson decided that too many people reported directly to him, including Jessop, so he had them report to an intermediary (probably good governance).

I can't confirm for certain, but I am reasonably confident that Jessop was asked to report to President Packer.

The week before Jessop quit, the choir had three black soloists perform during its broadcast in a bit of a revivalist theme. That was on a Sunday. On Thursday, Jessop told a small group of the choir that they would need to meet for a special practice on Saturday morning. On Friday, Jessop was told to meet with the person he reports to. That meeting clearly did not go well.

On Saturday, Jessop never showed up for practice. On Sunday, he didn't show up for the choir's 8 am practice prior to the broadcast. He also didn't show up at 9 am for the broadcast (and it was his turn to conduct for the week). Nobody heard from him on Monday.

On Tuesday, the choir held practice, and he showed up, walked straight up to the stand, read his resignation letter, and walked straight off. On Wednesday, all references to Jessop were removed from the choir's website.

I have heard that the Friday conversation involved a discussion about how the choir should only sing songs that were written by Mormon's "inspired of the Lord." It could have been precipitated by the Sunday performance of a gospel variety.

Since the new conductor took over, the choir, almost without exception, has performed only church hymns. This is a big issue with Pres. Packer, so it would confirm my suspicion that he is the intermediary Jessop met with.

If so, it is sad. Mormons may have the gift of the Holy Ghost, but to act like they have a monopoly on inspiration is naive and insulting.

I agree with you.

Jessop's behavior, if as you described (not showing up for practices and a performance without prior notification) though, is dissapointing. Better to check one's ego at the door.

malapert 04-23-2008 08:04 PM

This post is so replete with conjecture and speculation, my head is shaking involuntarily, and it isn't that I am plagued with Parkinson's desease.

Cali Coug 04-23-2008 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters (Post 212340)
Does Jessop have the guts to tell his story? If he tells his story will he be excommunicated, if it is like you said?

If your story is true, I can only imagine how upset Elder Packer must be with Gladys Knight.

Again, it is my belief it was Elder Packer. I can't confirm it. I don't see how Jessop would be excommunicated for revealing what happened (that would be a travesty). But he certainly wouldn't be popular. I don't think he will say anything public, from what I heard.

MikeWaters 04-23-2008 08:06 PM

If he doesn't want to say anything in public, then I'm not going to feel sorry for him, based on rumor and conjecture. MoTab isn't/wasn't that good anyway.

Tex 04-23-2008 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malapert (Post 212344)
This post is so replete with conjecture and speculation, my head is shaking involuntarily, and it isn't that I am plagued with Parkinson's desease.

Kinda my thought as well. But Cali's good at posting anonymous "Inside Baseball" church rumors without attribution.

And no good story about what SOBs the leaders are goes unheralded on CG. After all, it makes them more human, right?

MikeWaters 04-23-2008 08:07 PM

Tex, we do like the embarrassing stuff written down on church letterhead. It makes it harder to deny.

Tex 04-23-2008 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters (Post 212349)
Tex, we do like the embarrassing stuff written down on church letterhead. It makes it harder to deny.

Church letterhead would certainly lend this tale some credibility.

malapert 04-23-2008 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters (Post 212340)
Does Jessop have the guts to tell his story? If he tells his story will he be excommunicated, if it is like you said?

If your story is true, I can only imagine how upset Elder Packer must be with Gladys Knight.

Good point. Pres Hinckley encouraged Gladys Knight to form her choir and, being personally aquainted with many in the group, I can tell you their service has produced outstanding results and touched the hearts of many.

MikeWaters 04-23-2008 08:13 PM

Btw, ecclesiastical leaders telling choir directors and ward music chairpersons not to play certains kinds of music happens ALL THE TIME.

In fact it happened with my wife in my ward (she is the music chair).

I thought the music was appropriate. Obviously everyone else involved in the musical production thought it was appropriate. But the decision was made that it was not to be done.

Are our meetings more boring, and solemn than they need to be? Yes, I think so. But it's my own personal opinion, and my opinion is not going to change 150 years of solemn boredom. It's a tradition. That's why people asking the congregation to repeat "Aloha!" is so subversive (and why I like it).

All-American 04-23-2008 09:08 PM

Hmm. I have contacts in and over the choir. Let me send out a ping and see if there is any response. There probably won't be any, though-- I don't think anybody I know would talk. But we'll see.

Cali Coug 04-23-2008 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by All-American (Post 212395)
Hmm. I have contacts in and over the choir. Let me send out a ping and see if there is any response. There probably won't be any, though-- I don't think anybody I know would talk. But we'll see.

Feel free.

All-American 04-23-2008 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters (Post 212340)
Does Jessop have the guts to tell his story? If he tells his story will he be excommunicated, if it is like you said?

If your story is true, I can only imagine how upset Elder Packer must be with Gladys Knight.

I'm thrilled that Jessop didn't have the "guts" to air his grievances. Would that more members showed such wise restraint.

Tex 04-23-2008 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by All-American (Post 212403)
I'm thrilled that Jessop didn't have the "guts" to air his grievances. Would that more members showed such wise restraint.

Maybe Packer forced out Danzig as a message to Jessop to keep his mouth closed.

MikeWaters 04-23-2008 09:46 PM

Did Jessop start this underground whisper campaign? I think it takes more guts to be open and public than start a gossip-fest.

hyrum 04-23-2008 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cali Coug (Post 212330)

Since the new conductor took over, the choir, almost without exception, has performed only church hymns. This is a big issue with Pres. Packer, so it would confirm my suspicion that he is the intermediary Jessop met with.

If so, it is sad. Mormons may have the gift of the Holy Ghost, but to act like they have a monopoly on inspiration is naive and insulting.

I think the entire choir should picket the Jazz game.

Cali Coug 04-23-2008 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters (Post 212429)
Did Jessop start this underground whisper campaign? I think it takes more guts to be open and public than start a gossip-fest.

No. My source is not Jessop.

SeattleUte 04-23-2008 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters (Post 212355)
Btw, ecclesiastical leaders telling choir directors and ward music chairpersons not to play certains kinds of music happens ALL THE TIME.

In fact it happened with my wife in my ward (she is the music chair).

I thought the music was appropriate. Obviously everyone else involved in the musical production thought it was appropriate. But the decision was made that it was not to be done.

Are our meetings more boring, and solemn than they need to be? Yes, I think so. But it's my own personal opinion, and my opinion is not going to change 150 years of solemn boredom. It's a tradition. That's why people asking the congregation to repeat "Aloha!" is so subversive (and why I like it).

For a thousand years musical instruments were forbidden in Christian services.

SeattleUte 04-23-2008 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters (Post 212429)
Did Jessop start this underground whisper campaign? I think it takes more guts to be open and public than start a gossip-fest.

The way these things usually go suggests he eventually will.

Jeff Lebowski 04-23-2008 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeattleUte (Post 212461)
For a thousand years musical instruments were forbidden in Christian services.

Well, there you go. We believe in the restoration of the primitive church.

8ballrollin 04-23-2008 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters (Post 212355)
Btw, ecclesiastical leaders telling choir directors and ward music chairpersons not to play certains kinds of music happens ALL THE TIME.

This reminds me of an experience I once had with my bishop who refused to allow our choir to sing a version of the African American spiritual Deep River...

All-American 04-24-2008 02:41 AM

So after sending out a ping, the one thing that seemed inconsistent to a source in the choir was the bit about LDS-only music, since the choir is about to put out an Americana-type CD, though she recognized that CDs are quite a different animal from the other roles of the choir. The response was that this seems as likely a theory on what happened as any other idea being thrown around.

ute4ever 04-24-2008 03:03 AM

To those who are giving Cali Coug a hard time for not revealing his source, why would he make it up? It's not like he's disclosing a juicy list of brethren who have read the sealed portion of the BOM; rather he gave a brief timeline of the final few actions of the friggin' former choir director. Yeah real tabloid material.

DrumNFeather 04-24-2008 03:08 AM

Sounds like Jessup didn't get his due process either.

MikeWaters 04-24-2008 03:10 AM

I'm not criticizing Cali for not giving up a source. I'm just saying I'm not going to get worked up about as long as it is hearsay.

Also, I realize music in the church is crappy, and it is no shock that the church wouldn't want black gospel music. The church has its own "brand" and they want to stick to it.

I might not like it. But I'm old enough to know that is how things work.

Now if Jessop comes out and says a GA made racist statements, then we can talk.

Cali Coug 04-24-2008 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by All-American (Post 212558)
So after sending out a ping, the one thing that seemed inconsistent to a source in the choir was the bit about LDS-only music, since the choir is about to put out an Americana-type CD, though she recognized that CDs are quite a different animal from the other roles of the choir. The response was that this seems as likely a theory on what happened as any other idea being thrown around.

You hit on the difference exactly. There is a substantial distinction between a performance on Sunday and a CD in a totally different context. This is yet another reason I believe the contact was Packer. He has noted almost this exact distinction in general conference addresses. Just go to LDS.org and do a search for Packer and music.

Cali Coug 04-24-2008 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ute4ever (Post 212569)
To those who are giving Cali Coug a hard time for not revealing his source, why would he make it up? It's not like he's disclosing a juicy list of brethren who have read the sealed portion of the BOM; rather he gave a brief timeline of the final few actions of the friggin' former choir director. Yeah real tabloid material.

A voice of reason.

Tex 04-24-2008 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ute4ever (Post 212569)
To those who are giving Cali Coug a hard time for not revealing his source, why would he make it up? It's not like he's disclosing a juicy list of brethren who have read the sealed portion of the BOM; rather he gave a brief timeline of the final few actions of the friggin' former choir director. Yeah real tabloid material.

I don't care if he reveals his "source" or not. It's just kinda funny what juicy little rumors we like to spread around, if we can make our pet disfavored apostle look bad.

It's almost as if no one has ever played the phone game before.

Cali Coug 04-24-2008 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex (Post 212585)
I don't care if he reveals his "source" or not. It's just kinda funny what juicy little rumors we like to spread around, if we can make our pet disfavored apostle look bad.

It's almost as if no one has ever played the phone game before.

If the story is true, does it bother you? If it doesn't, then you must have reached the conclusion it doesn't make anyone look bad.

exUte 04-24-2008 06:26 AM

So far I have inquired of a member of the choir
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters (Post 212573)
I'm not criticizing Cali for not giving up a source. I'm just saying I'm not going to get worked up about as long as it is hearsay.

Also, I realize music in the church is crappy, and it is no shock that the church wouldn't want black gospel music. The church has its own "brand" and they want to stick to it.

I might not like it. But I'm old enough to know that is how things work.

Now if Jessop comes out and says a GA made racist statements, then we can talk.

as well as a 'religion' reporter that has pretty good access to anyone in the Church. Nothing.

BYU71 04-24-2008 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cali Coug (Post 212596)
If the story is true, does it bother you? If it doesn't, then you must have reached the conclusion it doesn't make anyone look bad.

After these many months of reading posts by Tex, I think what would make him happy is if you ever say anything critical of "one" of the brethern, you follow it up with saying nice things about "five" of the brethern.

Even if it doesn't make him happy, maybe it would slow his "all CG does is attack the brethern" posts.

Tex 04-24-2008 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cali Coug (Post 212596)
If the story is true, does it bother you? If it doesn't, then you must have reached the conclusion it doesn't make anyone look bad.

What part? The "I think it might be..." or the "I'm not sure..."? Or the "a friend of a friend of a friend" perhaps? Maybe you could share a good Three Nephite story with us too.

Sarcasm aside, there's always more to these stories, and you have about 3% of this one in your post. Even honest, professional journalists who actually name their sources get stuff wrong, sometimes very wrong. I'm inclined to give both Jessop and Packer (the next man in line to lead the church, lest we forget) the benefit of the doubt.

I don't even mind that the apostles' human frailties are occasionally exposed. They are human after all. It's the glee that some folks take in it that really bugs.

BYU71 04-24-2008 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex (Post 212631)
What part? The "I think it might be..." or the "I'm not sure..."? Or the "a friend of a friend of a friend" perhaps? Maybe you could share a good Three Nephite story with us too.

Sarcasm aside, there's always more to these stories, and you have about 3% of this one in your post. Even honest, professional journalists who actually name their sources get stuff wrong, sometimes very wrong. I'm inclined to give both Jessop and Packer (the next man in line to lead the church, lest we forget) the benefit of the doubt.

I don't even mind that the apostles' human frailties are occasionally exposed. They are human after all. It's the glee that some folks take in it that really bugs.

I take no glee from seeing the apostles have human frailties. I don't think you have accused me personally of this by the way.

There are those who believe their words should be followed straight down the line. There are even those that think their words should be taken as commandment. Personally, I am OK with that if that person wants to take the words that way for them.

What really bugs me is when these people start trying to push their belief system in that regard on me. It is not enough for them to say, I don't agree with you. You probably won't believe some of the responses I have had to my statement, "the bretherns words are counsel, not commandment." It isn't that they say they disagree with me, it is that they say I am leading people to apostacy when I say such things.

I accept the human frailties of the brethern. Heck, I take comfort in knowing Peter, as great as he was, had set backs. My noting of those frailties when I do isn't a condemnation of the brethern, it is a notation to those who think we should be blindly following everything that they don't have a foundation to stand on when preaching to me.

Cali Coug 04-24-2008 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex (Post 212631)
What part? The "I think it might be..." or the "I'm not sure..."? Or the "a friend of a friend of a friend" perhaps? Maybe you could share a good Three Nephite story with us too.

Sarcasm aside, there's always more to these stories, and you have about 3% of this one in your post. Even honest, professional journalists who actually name their sources get stuff wrong, sometimes very wrong. I'm inclined to give both Jessop and Packer (the next man in line to lead the church, lest we forget) the benefit of the doubt.

I don't even mind that the apostles' human frailties are occasionally exposed. They are human after all. It's the glee that some folks take in it that really bugs.

Believe it or don't. But I am 100% confident this happened.

Spaz 04-24-2008 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters (Post 212573)
I'm not criticizing Cali for not giving up a source. I'm just saying I'm not going to get worked up about as long as it is hearsay.

Also, I realize music in the church is crappy, and it is no shock that the church wouldn't want black gospel music. The church has its own "brand" and they want to stick to it.

I might not like it. But I'm old enough to know that is how things work.

Now if Jessop comes out and says a GA made racist statements, then we can talk.

The worst part of church music is the idiots who want to sing new songs no one's ever heard from the hymnal in Sacrament meeting.

1. No one's heard of those songs because they suck big, hairy, sweaty balls.
2. Few are the people able to divert enough attention from their kids to give enough focus to the music to sing it properly, causing:
a) Only old people who can't hear that they're no longer in-tune and sing extra-loud because they can't hear themselves anyway, and
b) People mumbling around with the basic tune, about half a beat behind.


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