"Marry in your own race"
 

This lesson was taught to the YM in my ward this past Sunday. The Kimball quote (paraphrased above) was used twice in the lesson by the teacher (a member of the Bishopric).

There were about 7 boys in attendance. Only one was white. So these non-white kids, in a white church, are being told to marry in their race.

It was also suggested during the lesson by another adult, that marrying a "career woman" might be a bad idea.

I didn't say anything during the meeting, but I will bring it up with the YM President first. And then maybe the Bishopric.

Minority kids in this white church have a tough enough time already. There is no sense in putting this nonsense on their plate.

My suggestion to the church curriculum office to remove the passage has not been met with any response.

Sweet. Some things never change. Doesn't this cast a revealing light on the source of the opposition to gay marriage?

Give 'em hell, Mike. That line should be removed from the manual.

The LDS Church is such a sweet spot for Mike. He gets to be a dissident and reactionary within, and take on all comers from without, two AK 47's in hand, against the atheist and liberal hordes.

God bless him.

I'm just a simple guy looking for a place to rest my head.

http://www.moviemania.sk/img/retro/rambo-1.jpg

I really like and respect the guy that taught the lesson. He is not trying to hurt people. He is doing the right thing in his mind by 1) following the prophet, 2) following the lesson plan, 3) saying what he has heard his entire life--whites marry whites, non-whites marry non-whites.

I generally favor people marrying within the human race, but with Seattle and Creekster, I guess some people make exceptions. God bless their patient and self-sacrificing wives.

In the old days Tex would leap into this thread swinging with bare knuckles, defending the manual as inspired, spinning all kinds of wild sophistry impressive in its own right. We really do need some new Mullah blood.

No kidding. The new Tex is pretty mellow.

You all can go to hell.

yuck

lol.

I wonder if this is one of waters "gettysburghs" ?

Mike Waters is the Rosa Parks sitting at the front of the short bus.

So its a good idea to continue to teach this garbage to the youth? Without people objecting to the curriculum the church will continue to teach the youth this awful doctrine. We need MORE Rosa Parks on this issue not less. Your calling Mike retarded by reference of the "Short Bus" may be funny to some but is indicative of the overall problem.

I think we are being blessed with more of Indy's infamous humor....much like his recent "fag" joke.

Indy is a crack up!

In our branch of multi-ethnic youth, we're more concerned about them keeping their pants on right now (which is not some abstract, hypothetical problem and I am not resorting to hyperbole) than we are about the ethnic makeup of their future spouse.

Ethnicity is not even a topic of discussion when it comes to talking about temple marriage.

I skipped that quote when I taught that lesson years ago. I recently was in attendance when this lesson was taught in our ward and the instructor began reading the quote and then said "oops, I had this marked as don't read, never mind guys". I think many people leave out that quote. IIRC, the quote also advises that we marry within our own socioeconomic status as well. It's definitely one for the trash bin.

C'mon. Someone has to poke fun at Mike's little Quixotic crusades.

That's more like it.

Our ward has made the decision NOT to give that lesson, because our leaders believe it's outdated by about fifty years. I asked our YM leaders and they worry more about basics than silly cultural lessons.

Good to see that most teachers have common sense. The still need to take that crap out IMHO.

Why would anybody living in the 21st century give that quote?

As Indy indicates there are much bigger fish to fry, and it's not relevant any more.

If one wishes to say, select a companion with some common interests and be aware of background to ensure you are able to communicate, that's useful.

Didn't we just have this discussion a few weeks ago?

Definitely.

If the Church wanted to get serious about preparing kids for real marriage issues, they should promote the following Top 10 Marriage Counsel tips:

1. Marry within your same or similar sex drive/fettish
2. Marry within non-conflicting sports allegiances
3. Marry within your own weight class
4. If you marry up a level in the money category, you lose the right to complain about most things
5. If you marry up in the looks category, you lose the right to complain about most things....also, you need to make good money.
6. Prior to marriage, spend some time with your future mother in law. If, after spending several hours together, you still secretly wish to have sex with your future MIL, then go ahead and marry your fiancee.....because that is what she will likely look and act like in 25 years.
7. Decide beforehand how many kids you both want to have. Subtract 1 from the number the man estimates and add 2 to the number the woman estimates. If you are both comfortable with those numbers, then proceed.
8. For the men: 4 months prior to marriage, ask your roommates to get upset with you, without notice, for trivial things. Have them do this twice daily. If, after 4 months, you are ok with this treatment, proceed.
9. For the women: 4 months prior to marriage, ask your female roommates to stop doing anything around your apartment. If, after 4 months, you are ok with this treatment, proceed.
10. See Rule #1

You are a fag, TripletDaddy, but it's okay because you didn't choose to be. You were just born that way.

I wrote an email to the church curriculum dept about this quote. They thanked me for my comments.

Cool!

I don't think it's exactly misguided to point out that people who don't share the same religious, ethnic and socioeconomic "heritage" are likely going to encounter more difficulties in marriage than those who are more homogeneous.

That's not bigotry, it's common sense. It doesn't preclude the possibility that people of completely disparate backgrounds can have a perfectly happy and successful marriage. I think it's still entirely appropriate to discuss the problems differences in background might present, but without necessarily couching that counsel in terms of "should avoid" or "refrain from" such relationships.

Commonalities are important but one should phrase it in terms of the positive, not the negative.

These are the tendencies found in successful marriages, good communication, common interests, and backgrounds where one can understand each other. However identifying race or ethnicity in today's complex world makes no sense whatsoever. I see no benefit to it, and no truth to it. Common culture is helpful, and books on ABCs shows cultural conflict resulting but the advice is WRONG. It doesn't reflect what's necessary to form a successful marriage.

Would you have more in common with an LDS African American girl who grew up in Utah and Texas, or a white Swedish socialist and devout atheist, who speaks not a lick of English?

I did not marry someone of my own race, I must have been getting a slurpee during this lesson as a youth (as well as the one about keeping the sabbath day holy)

These are actually quite good. On spiritual matters, I'd recommend the couple attend at least two fast and testimony meetings and share critiques of the testimonies given. If this produces more then three conflicting opinions (thumbs up vs. thumbs down), move on. Also, the couple should write down the amount of money each hopes the female will be earning in ten years: if this produces two zeroes, or no zeroes, fine--if only one zero, sayonara.

P.S. Mrs. PAC and I would have passed all of tests, and we're in our 35th year of unspeakable connubial bliss.

Do you believe this is a hypothetical Kimball had in mind?

Mike: Did the bishopric member actually discuss the merits of marrying within one's race or did he just read the quote and avoid any discussion? I am curious to know what was said. My concern is that the kids hear the quote and then no discussion is held, thus leaving the kids to interpret the statement for themselves. The lesson manual did not encourage any discussion with respect to race, rather, the application question in the manual used the words "cultural background" instead of "race". Did any of the kids question why such a statement?

Fortunately for me and three of my siblings, we did not heed the counsel with respect to racial background, but we did marry members of the Church. I guess my kids are the lucky ones, as they can choose to marry either a white or a hispanic member of the Church.

Kimball, a great prophet, was wrong on this one.

Marrying within race, whatever the hell that is, is not a predictor of connubial bliss.

Communication being the number one factor and common interests and common backgrounds can contribute to communication. However, races live within the same communities and can enjoy identical cultural understandings, so the same race advice is wrong.

In fact, and this is anecdotal, but in my varied experience, I've yet to see a mixed race couple that didn't have a good marriage. Perhaps we should encourage more mixed race marriages not less.

I'm not disagreeing, but you didn't answer the question.

Plus, it's hard to deny that mixed race marriages are far more accepted socially today than they were in Kimball's day.

and did nothing.... Contrary to what some people believe it IS important for the Church to revise this. As long as it is in the manual it is going to be taught in some places. These teachings are pretty damaging IMHO.

I fear he was reacting to the social conscience of some parts of our culture back then. Which was a mild mistake when he made the quote but today, it's just plain wrong and the quote can be excised without admitting wrong, the number one fear among current leadership.

Just don't teach that stuff and don't have it in there. It's no longer relevant if it ever was, which I daresay was not. It focused upon the wrong aspect, and missed communication as being the key to a successful marriage.

They will get kids thinking about the wrong things.

Proper goals and communication plus relationship skills need to be drilled into our youth, not focusing upon whether a person is Hispanic or Caucasian. It sends the wrong message and it should be changed.

WE do a poor job preparing our youth for marriage and need to revise it NOW.