Idiots
 

It is tough for me to contemplate that we actually have missionaries this stupid:

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695260314,00.html

http://www.chieftain.com/metro/1205113198/1

I can believe it. These guys just happened to get caught.

It was an extremely stupid thing to do (especially posting photos on the Internet), but it seems foolish to prosecute these guys for felonies. Does this parish not have any stupid teenage boys in its congregation?

Weren't there missionaries in Japan who did a similar thing with a statue of Budda? I seem to remeber something like this happening before. As I recall, the church was not allowed to teach in that particular city for quite some time.

Anyone remember this? Or is it an LDS urban myth.

Of course they have stupid teenage boys in their congregation -that's not the point. Missionaries are not stupid teenage boys, they are young men at least 19 years old and representatives of the church ... not to mention disciples of Christ!

Throw the book at them. Prison time should be sought.

They should be punished the way that people are normally punished in that area for similar crimes. No more, no less.

I'm trying to tell if you're being sarcastic, or if you've never met a missionary before.

Agreed -hoping it includes prison time. This is so frustrating.

Guess you weren't being sarcastic.

And people think I'm a mullah.

I am dead serious. They are young men, not teenagers and should be punished to the full extent of the law. It is time we stop coddling young men in the church both as parents and leaders.

Well, I take some solace from the fact that one of them apologized (although he lionized the church in his apology), and none of them wrote letters to the SLTribune.

Wasn't the picture taken in 2006? Chances are the kids are home now...although I suppose that wouldn't prevent them from having to return for their day in court.

I am pretty sure that one's an urban legend.

If we're going to be mullahs about definitions, then I guess I have to point out that 19-year-old young men are still teenagers. Twenty-year-olds are technically not, but turning 20 doesn't magically bestow powers of maturity, either.

If the offended party chooses to prosecute, due process is followed, and the young men receive a punishment, then I think they should abide by it. I just think there is room here for some mercy, recognizing the foolishness of youth. If a similar thing were done in a place I hold sacred by similarly stupid young men, I would be upset and probably want an apology, but I don't know that I would insist on a punishment that could haunt them for the rest of their lives.

The Christian gospel is supposed to be about helping people, not tearing them down. I'd wager these boys have already learned their lesson.

I read in the comments that two were already home, and one was sent home from his mission (probably the guy that apologized).

I wonder if the other two will be forced to apologize, under the threat of excommunication. Doubt it. No hints of apostasy.

what if 20 year old men broke into a temple and vandalized it? And then posted pictures of their handiwork on the internet. How would you respond to that?

I'm the father of four boys and scout leader. Boys do stupid things all the time and should be mentored with great patients. Missionaries are not boys -they are men. There is a distinct difference.

I believe I already said how I would respond.

And for the record, it doesn't appear that they vandalized it. They desecrated it (which I'm not saying isn't serious), but they didn't permanently damage or destroy any property.

What is wrong with CG this morning? No sense of proportion in anything? The Great Evil Tex has been turned into the Angel of Compassion! Have you not had your coffee yet or something?

Right, once they turn 19 you should bite their head off. That'll work.

The reality is we send young men that age to die for our country. In many states they are old enough to drink. We permit them to vote, to marry and HOLD the Melchizedek priesthood! It's time we expected more of our young men.

I'm with tooblue. Time for these boys to man up. Although I do think they should be demoted to deacon.

There have been several similar incidents. The most famous one was in Thailand. The elders sat on a statue of Buddha. They were turned in by the photo store. The pictures were put on the front page of newpapers and the public was outraged. At least one of the elders was thrown in jail and was there for quite some time. The incident happened in the 1970s. Even in the 1990s, the pictures would periodically be republished and public outrage would cycle up again and the missionaries would have to spend several days in their apartments and wait out the storm of outrage. I haven't been back to Thailand since 1996 so I don't know what the status is lately.

Why does "expect more" translate into sending them to prison with a felony conviction?

Tex, according to law they are adult men. In a free and democratic society adult men must deal with the consequences of unlawful actions.

It's not binary, tooblue. Plea bargains and mercy on the part of victims is shown all the time. As I have repeated more than once, they are adults (though teenagers) and if they are required to face the music by those whom they offended, so be it.

I just think in this circumstance there's a little room for this:

http://lds.org/conference/talk/displ...559-26,00.html

An appeal to mercy without respect for the demands of justice is a contradiction of eternal laws. It's ironic that the young men's planned lesson from this past week in our Ward was can mercy rob justice?

Even in the religious scenario with Christ as mediator the debtor must repay his debt.

Was President Hinckley appealing to mercy witout respect for the demands of justice in that talk? Am I?

Pharisee

Tex, knowing almost nothing about the situation, demands that justice not be applied.

Funny.

Wearing a suit for 70 hours a week, no sex in the prime of horniness, no movies, no sports, living on nothing. It's a miracle these boys (men) don't get in more trouble.

The statue beheading went too far, assuming they did it. The other stuff I suspect happens in some form or antoher all the time all over the owrld.

It's a hate crime. They should be punished the way Klansmen are punished for burning crosses, plus for property damage. (Truth is hate crimes are kind of silly and questionable per the 1st amendment whre there is just expression.)

I agree with Mike and disagree with Seattle. Hate crimes seem of questionable validity and they are mostly political expressions, rather than practical adjudications of law.

Tooblue?

I "demanded"?

I always assumed this one was urban-legendy.

The way you describe it pretty much ensures its urban legend status because you seem to be implying the existence of widespread, published photographic evidence, missionaries being imprisoned, etc, and a newspaper periodically republishing pictures. Maybe my google search is broken, but I cant find any reference to it.

Verdict: 100% urban legend.

I agree with you as I noted in my amendment ot my post, on a broad policy level. But treating them the same as everyone else may mean treating their crime as a hate crime. I knew a successful lawyer who lost some friends in the World Trade Center on 9/11 (he worked at Brown and Wood and with an investment banking form on the 100+ level). That night he got way drunk, drove to the mosque by his house, tramped in without taking off his shoes, and then shouted insults at the worshipers. He was charged with a federal hate crime, a felony. He may have copped a plea for less, but he was fired from his firm, etc. Last I heard he was selling life insurance.

These missionaries' act was ultimately an expression of hatred. It wasn't just vandalism. If hate crimes are on the books and people are being prosecuted for them, the prosecutor should treat these missionaries no different.

as long as you will agree that throwing beer cans in the general vicinity of missionaries, with the intent to strike, is also a hate crime.

You need to fix your google.

http://301nightsinbangkok.blogspot.c...iscretion.html

Empty ones? That's kind of a lame example, don't you think?

beer bottles.

I had beer bottles thrown at me. Cups filled with urine thrown at me. A basketball in a passing car thrown at me. Dogs sicked on me. Had someone try to run me off the road. Had a knife pulled on me. Been flashed by obese women (by far the worst offense). Had a gun pulled on me. Had loogies hawked at me.

All when I was a missionary.

Course probably had more to do with my engaging personality.

For the record: The dopes should be punished to the fullest extent of the law and clearly be held accountable for their actions. Few things rub me more the wrong way than when others refuse to take accountability for their actions, and then only do so when they've been busted instead of showing true remorse.