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-   -   Hall has first year starter lockonitis (http://www.cougarguard.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12788)

Archaea 10-14-2007 10:21 PM

Hall has first year starter lockonitis
 
He had receivers open but locked on to his primary receiver and really had his first bad, bad game. Glad our line made it good for Unga and Tonga.

MikeWaters 10-14-2007 10:23 PM

Anae seems to have zero misdirection plays and screens in the playbook. It's kind of scary. This doesn't help Hall.

Anae is ok. But he's not going to be getting any HC offers anytime soon.

MikeWaters 10-14-2007 10:27 PM

It seems like WRs don't exist in this offense. It's either the check down or the TE in the middle of the field. It's like watching a very bad version of Romo.

I think Hall will be special, but he's obviously got a ways to go. Luckily he plays in a terrible conference, and plays for fans who don't expect to beat BCS in non-conf. so he will be just fine.

woot 10-14-2007 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters (Post 135838)
Anae seems to have zero misdirection plays and screens in the playbook. It's kind of scary. This doesn't help Hall.

Anae is ok. But he's not going to be getting any HC offers anytime soon.

This continues to worry me. I'm excited that he seems to have figured out that running our gigantic backs on these cutesy draw-traps isn't playing to their strengths, but I still find the blocking schemes and our complete lack of misdirection plays to be very troubling. Even our receiver routes seems to be pretty pedestrian and predictable, so I hope that he is just keeping the play book closed for the benefit of the young talent.

Anae's offense can certainly be very effective when he's got really good players, but the ability to adjust when your players are underperforming seems to be the mark of a great coach, and the lack of misdirection and poor blocking is liable to get Hall killed.

Cali Coug 10-14-2007 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters (Post 135838)
Anae seems to have zero misdirection plays and screens in the playbook. It's kind of scary. This doesn't help Hall.

Anae is ok. But he's not going to be getting any HC offers anytime soon.

I can't understand the lack of screen plays in our offense. I don't believe I have seen a single screen yet this year, even when facing teams that are blitzing on virtually every down. I think the total lack of screen plays almost caused us to lose to Utah last year when they were blitzing every down. BYU only won when Utah went into the prevent defense.

BYU must have plays in the system that take into account relentless pressure. The screen is a must-have play for such situations. I just can't understand why it has been totally absent.

Hall ran the first bootleg play against UNLV that I have seen all year. It was incomplete, and he didn't look great on the throw. I wonder if he struggles with throwing on the run (so they don't call the plays) or if he struggled because he never practices throwing on the run.

non sequitur 10-14-2007 10:47 PM

Why is Anae taking heat? We got 400+ yards in offense, and only punted once the entire game. That means that we either scored or turned the ball over every time we had the ball. I think Anae did a great job. UNLV decided to take out our WR's , so we ran the ball up up their ass. It was a sloppy game, but that had nothing to do with Robert Anae.

MikeWaters 10-14-2007 10:48 PM

Texas Tech runs a WR screen to Crabtree. That kid is just a freshman man is he incredible. This is his line for the year:

2007 78 1244 15.9 75 17

17 touchdowns, 78 receptions, 1244 yards. In 7 games.

Maybe Anae needs to go back to Texas Tech and sign up for a coach's clinic.

MikeWaters 10-14-2007 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by non sequitur (Post 135845)
Why is Anae taking heat? We got 400+ yards in offense, and only punted once the entire game. That means that we either scored or turned the ball over every time we had the ball. I think Anae did a great job. UNLV decided to take out our WR's , so we ran the ball up up their ass. It was a sloppy game, but that had nothing to do with Robert Anae.

No one is worried about Anae eing offered a HC job. That tells you all you need to know.

Cali Coug 10-14-2007 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by non sequitur (Post 135845)
Why is Anae taking heat? We got 400+ yards in offense, and only punted once the entire game. That means that we either scored or turned the ball over every time we had the ball. I think Anae did a great job. UNLV decided to take out our WR's , so we ran the ball up up their ass. It was a sloppy game, but that had nothing to do with Robert Anae.

I am much happier with the play calling against UNLV than I have been against most teams we have played. He targeted their weakness to perfection. I just can't figure out why there isn't a screen play when Hall continues to get pummeled on blitzes.

MikeWaters 10-14-2007 11:19 PM

I can't think of a single time this year that the thought occurred to me "we are winning because of our coaching." I have had the opposite thought. "we are losing because of our coaching."

this season represents yoeman's work on the part of the coaches. nothing special there.

BlueHair 10-14-2007 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woot (Post 135841)
This continues to worry me. I'm excited that he seems to have figured out that running our gigantic backs on these cutesy draw-traps isn't playing to their strengths, but I still find the blocking schemes and our complete lack of misdirection plays to be very troubling. Even our receiver routes seems to be pretty pedestrian and predictable, so I hope that he is just keeping the play book closed for the benefit of the young talent.

Anae's offense can certainly be very effective when he's got really good players, but the ability to adjust when your players are underperforming seems to be the mark of a great coach, and the lack of misdirection and poor blocking is liable to get Hall killed.

Amen. I don't know if there is a defense in the league that could stop our run if we were dedicated to it. Play action roll outs would be huge. Not to mention the fact that our O line would wear down the mediocre talent in the MWC. I realize Anae's offense puts up tons of yardage, but there are way too many turnovers and sacks. It sucks to move the ball 60 yards downfield only to throw a pick or get sacked and fumble.

woot 10-15-2007 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueHair (Post 135862)
Amen. I don't know if there is a defense in the league that could stop our run if we were dedicated to it. Play action roll outs would be huge. Not to mention the fact that our O line would wear down the mediocre talent in the MWC. I realize Anae's offense puts up tons of yardage, but there are way too many turnovers and sacks. It sucks to move the ball 60 yards downfield only to throw a pick or get sacked and fumble.

Yea I forgot to mention that. Even if he insists on trying to single-block the one guy that is killing us, at least roll the QB away from him! Especially vs UCLA that would have been huge. Davis almost single-handedly won that game for them. Roll-outs also help young QBs develop by narrowing the options. Check route A, check route B, run if you can, if not, throw it away.

Archaea 10-15-2007 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters (Post 135839)
It seems like WRs don't exist in this offense. It's either the check down or the TE in the middle of the field. It's like watching a very bad version of Romo.

I think Hall will be special, but he's obviously got a ways to go. Luckily he plays in a terrible conference, and plays for fans who don't expect to beat BCS in non-conf. so he will be just fine.

Things I noticed from watching the game in the endzone, which provides a completely different perspective.

Hall does lock in on a receiver and needs to check off better.

Hall frequently ignored the open receiver and lucked out that Pitta was taller than those defenders covering him.

Hall ignored the WRs and underthrew them.

We do not use screens, motion enough to free up WRs.

We really need more speed at wideout, and at RB for next year so that the end run can mean something.

Despite Unga's good play, the doesn't always see the alternative hole that is there.

cougjunkie 10-15-2007 12:55 AM

Are you really bitching about the play calling? I give Anae all the credit in the world, it takes guts to call 10 straight running plays when you are primarily a pass first offense. Also to address a few other concerns:

Mike mentioned misdirection: We ran misdirection quite a bit but it is very subtle we will fake behind one guard and go behind the other, we do not run any counter plays or anything like that, but we do run quite a bit of misdirection.

WR screens: we ran 3 of them to Collie, also the play where we put the reciever in motion and swing it out to him is the equivalent of a swing pass (we ran it a lot ot Harline last year) so if you include that we ran 5 total.

When you are getting 5 yards a carry you run the damn ball and dont stop until they proven that they can stop you.

A few things i noticed on Halls ints and a few of his passes.

1. First ball he threw to Collie on the post corner, Austin was wide open he had turned the DB around and Hall missed him badly.

2. His pick that ended up at the 1, Matt Allen ran a post and their was a LB underneath (who made the pick) a safety over the top, and a corner trailing the play by about a yard, it was a very bad decision and Hall would have needed to make a perfect pass.

3. The one where he got hit and through the pick was still his fault imo because he held the ball way to long and you could see the blitz was coming, he needed to tuck it and take the sack or get rid of it a lot sooner.

4. The last pick was a horrible decision, Reed was blanketed and Hall tried to thread the needle.

Also one more side note, i think Sanford had some serious cash on this game, how else do you explain the decision to go for 2 and then kick it deep.

MikeWaters 10-15-2007 01:03 AM

When I say screen, I actually mean a play where the OL lets the DL through.

Just to clarify things. A quick hitter to the WR is not what I mean.

woot 10-15-2007 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cougjunkie (Post 135880)
Are you really bitching about the play calling? I give Anae all the credit in the world, it takes guts to call 10 straight running plays when you are primarily a pass first offense. Also to address a few other concerns:

Mike mentioned misdirection: We ran misdirection quite a bit but it is very subtle we will fake behind one guard and go behind the other, we do not run any counter plays or anything like that, but we do run quite a bit of misdirection.

WR screens: we ran 3 of them to Collie, also the play where we put the reciever in motion and swing it out to him is the equivalent of a swing pass (we ran it a lot ot Harline last year) so if you include that we ran 5 total.

When you are getting 5 yards a carry you run the damn ball and dont stop until they proven that they can stop you.

A few things i noticed on Halls ints and a few of his passes.

1. First ball he threw to Collie on the post corner, Austin was wide open he had turned the DB around and Hall missed him badly.

2. His pick that ended up at the 1, Matt Allen ran a post and their was a LB underneath (who made the pick) a safety over the top, and a corner trailing the play by about a yard, it was a very bad decision and Hall would have needed to make a perfect pass.

3. The one where he got hit and through the pick was still his fault imo because he held the ball way to long and you could see the blitz was coming, he needed to tuck it and take the sack or get rid of it a lot sooner.

4. The last pick was a horrible decision, Reed was blanketed and Hall tried to thread the needle.

Also one more side note, i think Sanford had some serious cash on this game, how else do you explain the decision to go for 2 and then kick it deep.

I don't think anyone is complaining about the second half vs UNLV. That was good stuff, except for when he still insisted on passing, which led to yet another pick.

I like that we are able to get so much yardage in so simple an offense, it just seems that screens would help us out. We do run the occasional WR screen, but WR screens are much more difficult to execute than RB screens, as demonstrated by our WR screens failing every time. I agree that swing passes can act like screens if they're on a jail-break, but I don't see what's so bad about running actual screens -- they are an absolutely essential part of a pass-happy offense. If we continue to find success in the running game, the point will be largely moot, as that threat will make the DEs think twice before speed rushing, but he's clearly shown an unwillingness to call screens even when passing is all we do.

MikeWaters 10-15-2007 01:13 AM

If you are a BYU fan, the game last night was pathetic. It's only saving virtue was that it was a W.

Let's not forget who we were playing. UNLV. A team that we scored 100+ against in the last two seasons.

I doubt I will watch the EWU game. I like BYU, but not enough to watch practice for 3 hours.

Maybe I'm spoiled, maybe I'm expecting too much. But ugly football against terrible opponents in games that about 5,000 people are watching on the planet--it's just not compelling. If we played ugly and squeezed out a win against Wash state, then maybe it's interesting, assuming it keeps us in the pac-10 title hunt. Ugh. This game was a step back for the team. Anae had to take the ball out of Max Hall's hands.

cougjunkie 10-15-2007 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters (Post 135884)
When I say screen, I actually mean a play where the OL lets the DL through.

Just to clarify things. A quick hitter to the WR is not what I mean.

So then we did run at least 2 of those, one on 3rd and goal and one where Collie ran about 65 yards across the field to gain 1 yard. That is exactly what Texas Tech runs.

One reason we may not run screens to the backs is becuase of halls size, when you let the d-line come free up the middle (or after a bump) you have to dump the ball over their heads, Hall may not be big tall enough to do that.

RockyBalboa 10-15-2007 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cougjunkie (Post 135880)
Are you really bitching about the play calling? I give Anae all the credit in the world, it takes guts to call 10 straight running plays when you are primarily a pass first offense. Also to address a few other concerns:

Mike mentioned misdirection: We ran misdirection quite a bit but it is very subtle we will fake behind one guard and go behind the other, we do not run any counter plays or anything like that, but we do run quite a bit of misdirection.

WR screens: we ran 3 of them to Collie, also the play where we put the reciever in motion and swing it out to him is the equivalent of a swing pass (we ran it a lot ot Harline last year) so if you include that we ran 5 total.

When you are getting 5 yards a carry you run the damn ball and dont stop until they proven that they can stop you.

A few things i noticed on Halls ints and a few of his passes.

1. First ball he threw to Collie on the post corner, Austin was wide open he had turned the DB around and Hall missed him badly.

2. His pick that ended up at the 1, Matt Allen ran a post and their was a LB underneath (who made the pick) a safety over the top, and a corner trailing the play by about a yard, it was a very bad decision and Hall would have needed to make a perfect pass.

3. The one where he got hit and through the pick was still his fault imo because he held the ball way to long and you could see the blitz was coming, he needed to tuck it and take the sack or get rid of it a lot sooner.

4. The last pick was a horrible decision, Reed was blanketed and Hall tried to thread the needle.

Also one more side note, i think Sanford had some serious cash on this game, how else do you explain the decision to go for 2 and then kick it deep.

Great anaylsis and couldn't agree more.

MikeWaters 10-15-2007 01:18 AM

This is the 2nd time, arch I have heard from someone who went to the game, that Hall was consistently failing to see WRs open down the field. The other time was a guy who was in the pressbox with Doman. doman was screaming the whole time.

MikeWaters 10-15-2007 01:18 AM

You will notice that all the defenders of Anae have not addressed my point that no one is even remotely concerned that Anae will be lured away.

Mormon Red Death 10-15-2007 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cali Coug (Post 135844)
I can't understand the lack of screen plays in our offense. I don't believe I have seen a single screen yet this year, even when facing teams that are blitzing on virtually every down. I think the total lack of screen plays almost caused us to lose to Utah last year when they were blitzing every down.

its funny ... Utah hasn't run a traditional screen pass since 2002 (honestly)

YOhio 10-15-2007 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters (Post 135894)
You will notice that all the defenders of Anae have not addressed my point that no one is even remotely concerned that Anae will be lured away.

Fine with me. Anae is a very servicable OC who has been able to put together a much better offense than his predecessor who, oddly enough, has never had a problem finding a job.

MikeWaters 10-15-2007 01:35 AM

More than the lack of screens, is the lack of play action.

I think with Anae, it's sort of like we hired Leach's B student. He gets the main concepts, he can work hard, but he is no genius. He'll put in a solid performance, but rarely will you come away thinking you have had a brush with greatness.

This may be to BYU's advantage actually. They get a consisently good (not great) OC who will stick around for a long time. If Anae were that A student, now after year 3, we would be talking about him being recruited away. It may be that happens at the end of this year. But I doubt it. I can't imagine where. I think eventually Anae will leave for a HC job, but not particularly big-time. Mid to low-tier WAC after two or three more years at BYU.

MikeWaters 10-15-2007 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YOhio (Post 135898)
Fine with me. Anae is a very servicable OC who has been able to put together a much better offense than his predecessor who, oddly enough, has never had a problem finding a job.

This is where Indy jumps in and points out the differences in personnel as well as strength of schedule.

Before Crowton took over, tell me about Doman. Are you going to tell me that Doman was a self-made QB?

Although Beck is now a mormon God, this wasn't so clear even the first few games of his senior year.

If I were coach at A&M and I had to choose between Crowton and Anae for my OC, I would go with Crowton. And I guess 95% of coaches would make the same decision.

il Padrino Ute 10-15-2007 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters (Post 135902)
...Although Beck is now a mormon God, this wasn't so clear even the first few games of his senior year....

Correction - He's a zoob God. Not all Mormons praise him. ;)

YOhio 10-15-2007 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters (Post 135902)
If I were coach at A&M and I had to choose between Crowton and Anae for my OC, I would go with Crowton. And I get 95% of coaches would make the same decision.

Whether the coach at A&M or any other school would prefer GC or RA is completely irrelevant. They both have track records at BYU and Anae's is better.

MikeWaters 10-15-2007 01:48 AM

Beck's slow adjustment to college football (many will fairly argue that a poor supporing cast was the reason) makes me guess he will also adjust poorly to the NFL. I'm interested to see if this will be the case or not.

MikeWaters 10-15-2007 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YOhio (Post 135909)
Whether the coach at A&M or any other school would prefer GC or RA is completely irrelevant. They both have track records at BYU and Anae's is better.

In your opinion. To me it's apples and oranges. Crowton has a track record of many years in many different situations. Anae has one year where the team did well with a 2nd round NFL qb, that took his biggest lumps when Anae wasn't around.

If you are telling me that the opinion of all other football coaches in the country doesn't matter in your assessment, I think you have said enough already.

YOhio 10-15-2007 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters (Post 135912)

If you are telling me that the opinion of all other football coaches in the country doesn't matter in your assessment, I think you have said enough already.

I'm curious as to why you're so confident in your assessment of what the A&M coach would do. Do you subscribe to his insider letter?

MikeWaters 10-15-2007 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YOhio (Post 135918)
I'm curious as to why you're so confident in your assessment of what the A&M coach would do. Do you subscribe to his insider letter?

I use A&M as an example because they have a terrible offense. They would probably want to finally bring in a OC who knows that mysterious technique called "the pass".

Jeff Lebowski 10-15-2007 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters (Post 135847)
No one is worried about Anae eing offered a HC job. That tells you all you need to know.

I love ya, Mike, but sometimes your negativism takes on a degree of absurdity. This is one of those cases. Yeah, let's all go slit our wrists because Anae is not being offered any HC jobs. Sigh.

Goatnapper'96 10-15-2007 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski (Post 135969)
I love ya, Mike, but sometimes your negativism takes on a degree of absurdity. This is one of those cases. Yeah, let's all go slit our wrists because Anae is not being offered any HC jobs. Sigh.

The funny part is that I have read threads on both the Ute board and the MWC board about Anae and that he has got to be on many ADs short list for HC. They know no more than us whether he is that well respected or not, but opposing fans seem to have a very different perception than Mikey.

il Padrino Ute 10-15-2007 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96 (Post 135983)
The funny part is that I have read threads on both the Ute board and the MWC board about Anae and that he has got to be on many ADs short list for HC. They know no more than us whether he is that well respected or not, but opposing fans seem to have a very different perception than Mikey.

I think Anae is doing a respectable job. He seems to have adjusted to tailor his offense to the players he has.

Of course, sometimes it would be best if other schools don't want to poach one of your coaches. I'd still have preferred that Meyer not have been wanted.

MikeWaters 10-15-2007 04:26 AM

I wonder if I have hit a wall or something. BYU is having a pretty good season. And I'm not sure I even want to watch the next game.

My pattern over my lifetime has been decreasing interest in following sports on TV. I used to watch Braves games religiously in high school. I used to be die-hard for the Cowboys. I used to watch all the Rockets games I could.

It's inevitable that one day BYU will have a terrible season and I will just take up a new hobby. Maybe I'll start hunting.

I've been to the parties with caviar. And now I know that BYU's parties are casserole in the multipurpose.. Something drastic needs to happen, and sadly almost no one shares the urgency. They seem to think that the status quo can exist indefinitely.

In this run of games on the mtn, there will be fans that tune out, never to tune in again.

il Padrino Ute 10-15-2007 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters (Post 136029)
I wonder if I have hit a wall or something. BYU is having a pretty good season. And I'm not sure I even want to watch the next game.

My pattern over my lifetime has been decreasing interest in following sports on TV. I used to watch Braves games religiously in high school. I used to be die-hard for the Cowboys. I used to watch all the Rockets games I could.

It's inevitable that one day BYU will have a terrible season and I will just take up a new hobby. Maybe I'll start hunting.

I've been to the parties with caviar. And now I know that BYU's parties are casserole in the multipurpose.. Something drastic needs to happen, and sadly almost no one shares the urgency. They seem to think that the status quo can exist indefinitely.

In this run of games on the mtn, there will be fans that tune out, never to tune in again.

I'd rather have casserole than rotten fish eggs that can't even be used for bait.

Detroitdad 10-15-2007 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters (Post 136029)
I wonder if I have hit a wall or something. BYU is having a pretty good season. And I'm not sure I even want to watch the next game.

My pattern over my lifetime has been decreasing interest in following sports on TV. I used to watch Braves games religiously in high school. I used to be die-hard for the Cowboys. I used to watch all the Rockets games I could.

It's inevitable that one day BYU will have a terrible season and I will just take up a new hobby. Maybe I'll start hunting.

I've been to the parties with caviar. And now I know that BYU's parties are casserole in the multipurpose.. Something drastic needs to happen, and sadly almost no one shares the urgency. They seem to think that the status quo can exist indefinitely.

In this run of games on the mtn, there will be fans that tune out, never to tune in again.

Are you forgetting that we, in all probablity, ought to win out or lose one more and go 10-2 or 9-3? Even if some of the wins are less satisfying than they ought to be winning will rebuild and reinvigorate our fanbase. You must know that you are pretty near alone in being disgusted with the prospect of a 9-10 win season, especially in light of breaking in all new skill position players.

Besides what we are all waiting for is next year and the year after, when we have highly experienced talented skill position players all over the field. I don't see our fan base declining much in that context no matter how bad our TV deal is (and it is terrible).

As for Anae, I would not expect him to be getting HC offers after 3 years of work as an OC. For heavens sake even Major Applewhite didn't get HC offers after lighting it up at Rice and took a job as a co-offensive Coordinator at Bama, and he is Texas royalty (as you well know).

Cali Coug 10-15-2007 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters (Post 136029)
I wonder if I have hit a wall or something. BYU is having a pretty good season. And I'm not sure I even want to watch the next game.

My pattern over my lifetime has been decreasing interest in following sports on TV. I used to watch Braves games religiously in high school. I used to be die-hard for the Cowboys. I used to watch all the Rockets games I could.

It's inevitable that one day BYU will have a terrible season and I will just take up a new hobby. Maybe I'll start hunting.

I've been to the parties with caviar. And now I know that BYU's parties are casserole in the multipurpose.. Something drastic needs to happen, and sadly almost no one shares the urgency. They seem to think that the status quo can exist indefinitely.

In this run of games on the mtn, there will be fans that tune out, never to tune in again.

Back away from the ledge...

I am actually more optimistic now than I have been in years. The recent changes to the BCS system make it almost inevitable that a non-BCS school will crash the BCS party every single year. I see no reason why BYU can't consistently be that team. This is a rebuilding year, and BYU stands an excellent chance of going 10-2. If they can do that in a rebuilding year, what about next year? They have a superb chance of finishing the season in the top 15 (like last year). You do that 2 years in a row, and you get some attention next year (and you continue getting that attention for some time thereafter, like the U this year).

BYU is on the right path. They are playing some solid football. More importantly, they are winning games even when they execute somewhat poorly because they have a lot of talent on the team. Of all the years to be negative, this is not the one I would have picked.

TheSizzle36 10-15-2007 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters (Post 135847)
No one is worried about Anae eing offered a HC job. That tells you all you need to know.

It is because he is Poly. Name a Poly D1 head coach. If Norm Chow couldn't get a job, why should Anae?

MikeWaters 10-15-2007 12:23 PM

If BYU is at a historic high, and it is this boring and inconsequential, that does not bode well.


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