Joseph Smith, horndog?
 

I am not one for idolizing Joseph Smith and sanitizing everything about him. But let's put his sexual record in context.

There is evidence Joseph Smith slept with 11 of his wives (based on Matt Bowman's The Mormon People). A male averages 9 sexual partners in his lifetime . This is how he compares with some of the most promiscuous men:

Wilt Chamberlain 10,000
Mystery (Erik von Markovic) 250
Casanova 100
Joseph Smith 11

You'd think someone with sufficient charisma to launch a new world religion can do better.

When the comparison is the most promiscuous men, it's not really a winning religious argument.

A better winning argument would be comparing him to accepted Christian/Jewish prophets/leaders.

Which gets back to the whole "they practiced polygamy in the OT, so maybe it's ok" argument.

But he is not a "serial adulterer" as SU describes, and he would not be instituting polygamy primarily for sex, as most exmos believe.

I don't believe there are any winning arguments on this.

Basically, as one person put it, he sacramentalized adultery. There was sex involved and some of them were the wives of other men. Joseph may have rationalized it that he was just doing what he read about the prophets and patriarchs doing, but there is little proof that was noble.

I really wouldn't try on for size that other predators had a lot more sex. In his day, I imagine the numbers of sexual partners was far lower than what it is today.

How many cases of adultery does it take to be a serial adulterer? Once you go down that line, you lose.

Some people consider three cases of adultery serial. The truth is none of us know the principal purpose of polygamy. We weren't there.

However, how old was Fanny Alger, his first plural "wife", about whom he lied to Emma. She was 16! And she was "comely" which doesn't mean homely. In other words, he picks out the cute Laurel for his first plural wife. Of course, there is no sexual interest?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...th's_wives

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...#List_of_wives

You confused the great seducers with predators. Your whole premise is backwards. The point is, it would have been very easy for JS to get lots of sex, and to introduce it as a religious practice has got to be the dumbest way to do it.

Casanova lived before JS; I doubt men had fewer sexual partners back then.

The Church places a premium on chastity. I think that trips up a lot of people.

Are you saying Casanova was representative of the typical behavior of most men? Doesn't make sense to me.

The Church now places a heavy-handed emphasis on chastity. And if you were in a polygamous mode, you had lots of opportunities for sex.

Nobody is arguing the only purpose of polygamous relationships were sexual, but they were certainly an important component.

I'm gonna introduce an elaborate theology of polygamy, packed with the rationale of creating more cohesive societies, in order to bang 11 women.

When I have enough charisma to bang thousands.

You can't relate, because you're not a womanizer. And you are ignoring that people may have more than one motive.

I've known politicians who crave being at the seat of power, don't mind get on the gravy train and are happy to indulge in womanizing. Just because you believe JS was pure as the driven snow doesn't make it so or not so.

Polygamy and polyandry are the ugly stepsisters believers deny exist or that they were always for noble purposes.

Joseph Smith is seriously flawed in many regards, but you still have no answer for his pathetic numbers (especially relative to his extreme charismatic level).

I've trained under a couple of the top seducers in the world, including one of von Markovic's students. Their methods were originally deduced by observing naturals like Joseph Smith.

Your argument is that he didn't have sex with as many as he could have? That's your argument to disprove that polygamy or polyandry wasn't about sex? Really!?!

Shaking my head.

This thread is growing in potential.

Oh yeah, it has fourteen posts by now.

Ugo Perego just announced at Mormon History Association Proceedings that DNA shows Joseph is not the father of Josephine Lyon.

Horndog having sex all day, can't get a single girl pregnant in an age with only primitive birth control. What an infertile dumbass mfkr.

You are in denial. There are others.

Denial of what? Everyone we've tested has been negative thus far, and Lyons is the best candidate. This exmo was trying to tell me Fanny Alger's miscarried child was JS's. How convenient, the only one we can't test scientifically.

There are millions of people in Europe descended from Genghis Khan as a result of his sexual exploits, including Perego himself.

it is curious how JS didn't seem to sire any kids from anyone but Emma. Did he use some kind of primitive contraceptive technique (early forms of condoms)? Did he engage in sex that was non-vaginal? Withdrawal method? Didn't have sex at all?

Hard to know.

I think the frequency of sex was low.

You make that conclusion based upon the lack of identified offspring. If as Mike Waters ruminates, he exercised birth control, that could explain a lot.

He could have also used a primitive form of the rhythm method (timed sex). I don't know enough about the history of birth control to know whether anyone in his time would have practiced this.

It seems like some would like to congratulate him on not having sex, or very little sex. But what about the other side of the coin? How great is it for these women to be in sexless marriages?

Of course in some cases the marriages must have been considered only in terms of the after-life.

There is no doubt that some of the marriages were dynastic, but I simply don't believe anybody enters that many marriages and no sex is involved.

Most of those women were married to other men. The single ones, don't know.

Plenty of Mormons are married with no sex involved.