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- - Now that the LDS Church has raised the (http://www.cougarguard.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12909)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex (Post 137826)

It's also possible that the lay leadership misunderstood what the raising of the bar meant. We have at least one other example of Elder Ballard speaking on the same subject twice in General Conference because he felt it wasn't properly understood or taken seriously.

I think that there are a couple of reasons why the bar is being lowered or it was not really raised in the first place and only the Bishops and Stake Presidents didn't understand.

1.) Lower convert baptisms. When sales are low it is always wise to increase sales force, especially if they are free.

2.) I think there has become a realization that many young kids screw up. In some instances the raising of the bar was preventing kids who had screwed up from serving missions. In the past many kids who went on missions had issues from everything from worthiness to lacking a testimony. In time many of these became converted and the opportunity to serve as a full time missionary was a serious catalyst for the change. I think the Brethren want to go back to giving those types, of which I will propose many of us were and I surely was, of kids the chance to serve and have that life changing experience. I applaud this wholeheartedly.

3.) I think the Brethren would like to develop a way to remove the stigma from kids who are not able to serve missions, but after President Kimball's commanding and one puts it together with Nephi's going and doing because he knows that the Lord will give no commandment save he shall prepare a way, I think that is an endeavor that is analagous to peeing into the wind. In our culture it is a flat out coming of age event. I have young daughters, younger than 5, and they all want to marry _______ after he comes home from his mission. Usually __________ is one of their cousins, but what the hell it is small town SE Idaho. ;)

I think the raising of the bar was trying to do that, but the entire cultural expectation is so deeply ingrained that it just ain't gonna happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DapperDan (Post 137829)

I can only hope this leniency policy flows down to BYU recruiting and HC enforcement.

I think there needs to be a liberal outpouring of the "Alexander Doniphan Friends of the Saints Honor Code Exemption."

All in favor...AYE!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex (Post 137826)

It just seems like you're being pretty one-dimensional. Not every baptism and not every missionary are created equal. Are there regional differences in baptismal rate changes? Has war, natural disaster, political changes, or other 3rd party events unduly influenced missionary labors? Increases in some areas, decreases in others?

How about retention? Lower baptismal rates, but higher activity rates one-year later, or the opposite? Better rate of ordination of men to the Melchizedek Priesthood, or worse?

What about the new Preach My Gospel, which was introduced about the same time? How has it affected teaching effectiveness and thus baptismal rates? Are converts better educated about the church than before? Are they better prepared for the transition? Do our missionaries need better training in understanding and teaching by the Spirit?

What about the local leadership? Has the proper emphasis been made to help parents adjust to the new standards? Have the youth programs been adapted to support? Are the Bishops properly trained to handle the new demands?

And on and on. I'm sure there's dozens of statistics that they examine to fully understand the scope of changes in the missionary program. It's also possible that the lay leadership misunderstood what the raising of the bar meant. We have at least one other example of Elder Ballard speaking on the same subject in consecutive General Conferences because he felt it wasn't properly understood or taken seriously.

To just say, "well baptisms are down, so the brethren are re-thinking" suggests a pretty superficial view of what's really going on, in my mind. I doubt that after not even 5 years of a raised bar, the brethren are suddenly thinking, "maybe it IS ok to send out that kid who was immoral the night before going into the MTC. Hell, we need the numbers."

You have a handbook. You know what the policy is. When they tweak the policy, come back and give me a public apology.

I always understood, probably incorrectly, that the bar raising was mostly meant to discourage the prevalent attitude (at least in Utah county) of 14-18 being the party years and 18-19 the clean up year so they could go on the socially expected mission.

My Mission President was from Idaho. The rest is history.

Quote:

Originally Posted by myboynoah (Post 137843)

My Mission President was from Idaho. The rest is history.

Because Joe Cool runs around without wearing the priesthood protection he entered into by covenant, unshaven and wearing hippie coveralls and a devout priesthood leader lovingly corrects you hold grudges.

KISS MY ASS CARROT SNAPPER!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay santos (Post 137834)

You have a handbook. You know what the policy is. When they tweak the policy, come back and give me a public apology.

Will do. You might be waiting a while. I don't see a lot of need for change in the handbook, and they're not in the habit of putting out new ones frequently. A snippet:

Quote:

Missionary work demands clean hands and a pure heart. Missionary candidates must be morally worthy in every respect. If the life of a missionary candidate needs reforming, that must happen well before the person is recommended for missionary service. ...

The bishop and stake president should not submit a recommendation until they are satisfied that the candidate is physically, mentally, and emotionally able to serve. However, these leaders must be careful not to place excessive requirements on missionary candidates. They should realize that the work of the Lord is done by ordinary people who work in an extraordinary way.

It also mentions that these policies are in place to "help avoid the devastating feelings that can result if a recommendation is returned or a missionary is sent home."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96 (Post 137832)

1.) Lower convert baptisms. When sales are low it is always wise to increase sales force, especially if they are free.

As I said, I think this is an extremely one-dimensional approach that the Brethren do not share.

Also, what evidence do we have that the bar is actually being lowered? Clarifying misunderstandings about the standard does not count.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96 (Post 137832)

2.) I think there has become a realization that many young kids screw up. In some instances the raising of the bar was preventing kids who had screwed up from serving missions. In the past many kids who went on missions had issues from everything from worthiness to lacking a testimony. In time many of these became converted and the opportunity to serve as a full time missionary was a serious catalyst for the change. I think the Brethren want to go back to giving those types, of which I will propose many of us were and I surely was, of kids the chance to serve and have that life changing experience. I applaud this wholeheartedly.

I think that realization was already in place, and that's why the bar was raised in the first place.

I think you're conflating a budding testimony with transgression. To the first: no one is suggesting kids need to have the New Testament memorized to enter missionary service. They just need to be comfortable with the fundamentals of the gospel. Read Preach My Gospel. It's not rocket science in there.

To the second: everyone wants young people who have transgressed to repent and be made clean, they just don't want them undergoing that process while serving a full-time mission. DallasDan's comment is echoed by Ballard: "The day of the 'repent and go' missionary is over. You know what I’m talking about, don’t you, my young brothers? Some young men have the mistaken idea that they can be involved in sinful behavior and then repent when they’re 18 1/2 so they can go on their mission at 19."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex (Post 137925)

Will do. You might be waiting a while. I don't see a lot of need for change in the handbook, and they're not in the habit of putting out new ones frequently. A snippet:

It also mentions that these policies are in place to "help avoid the devastating feelings that can result if a recommendation is returned or a missionary is sent home."

The part I meant, which I'm sure you know, is the part that says young men who have sexual relations with more than one person or multiple incidents with same person are disqualified from missionary service.