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Pettitte did admit to taking HGH, although he claimed it was only once and it was to heal.

Which means he was a doper.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 243726)

Petite was clean and has never been accused of using. He was only accused of knowing about Clemens' using.

And Clemens has never failed a drug test (like Bonds has) and his head hasn't grown like Bonds or Sosa. If Clemens used, it was only late in his career to overcome injury, most likely.

While there might be an occasional pitcher who used, the vast majority are not suspected. In baseball it was the overwhelmingly power hitters who used.

In cycling, it is everyone. Surely you can admit that distinction.

So because cycling demands strict testing and catches people it is dirty. And since baseball test is a joke and doesn't test then they are irish spring clean. You only say power hitters because those are the guys that left one season looking like Rasmussen and returned to spring training in the shape of the incredible hulk. This seems to be the test that baseball applies and everyone else is clean.

What a crock!

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters (Post 243630)

obviously the incentives are still stacked in favor of doping.

Exactly. Did anyone read the game theory article I posted? It's still the sucker bet to ride clean. Until that changes I'm afraid we're in for more of the same.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 243706)

The use of these drugs prescribed by a doctor to aid in the healing and recovery from injury is exactly the right use of these drugs. I hope every athlete in every sport takes advantage of every chemical invented by man which will aid and speed their recovery. This isn't even a question IMHO. And anyone who has a problem with medical science aiding recovery from injury is an idiot.

Adam, has it really not crossed your mind that the healing line is bull? It's the healing between starts that provides the competitive advantage. That's one big reason pitchers use, and it's also why I think you grossly underestimate the number of pitchers who were using. The quick recovery is the thing they seek, not necessarily the increased power.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 243726)

One distinction that is ignored. Cycling's testing is probably the most rigorous of any around.

Due to collective bargaining, the testing of baseball and football is fairly weak.

I believe almost every baseball player uses steroids and/or HGV which is performance enhancing, not just recuperative.

Cycling is cleaning up its act, baseball never will. There is no comparison. Just talk to minor leaguers and you'll discover cheating in baseball is MUCH, MUCH more rampant than cheating in cycling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 243726)

Adam, you should be embarrassed that you hit the "submit reply" button on this one. Pettite gave the standard pitcher's line that "it was for healing" but everyone knows what that means now. There really is no question that Clemens used. You don't get better in your 40's when you were world class in your 20's and 30's. You keep saying that it was only an occasional pitcher. I think the fact that 2 of the Yankees most high profile pitchers used should be a red flag for that line of thinking. I think you're having trouble seeing the truth through your Yankee goggles.

BTW, there is no test for HGH that is considered scientifically valid. Since they couldn't/weren't testing for it why do you use the "never tested positive" line of thinking anyway?