Originally Posted by MikeWaters (Post 304679)

One of my faults is that I was much too nice and patient with people that wished me ill. Like a cancer it grows until it is unmanageable.

The torture-purveyors are the same. They are the cancer that America is either doing to deal with now or ignore.

When America is gone, they will look back to now. They will look at the flouting of the constitution, the ignoring of laws in the name of security, the breaches of civil liberties. They will note how nobody cared, how people lied, how people were willing to trade their liberties for a false security.

In another age, Jay Bybee would be dragged onto the street and shot. His head would be placed on a pole in the city square.

I don't ask for that. I merely ask that he be questioned under oath. I ask that he be prosecuted, if he broke the law. I ask that if he was unethical in his prior job, that impeachment be considered. Whether that happens or not, I ask that he be shunned. Not as a leper. Because lepers we should care for and serve. Shunned like a devil.

The world likes it devils. And there will be people who call good evil, and evil good. "If you are against torture, you are a gross hypocrite." The number of people with any amount of moral clarity diminishes daily.

Originally Posted by tooblue (Post 304677)

Link!

Originally Posted by MikeWaters (Post 304610)

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/29/us...ybee.html?_r=1

Can we hurry up and excommunicate him already? That would be a good start.

It boggles my mind how we can officially disfellowship Labute, but we can't disfellowship this man?

Oh yeah, that's right, most Mormons likely support torture.

Originally Posted by Sleeping in EQ (Post 304685)

I'm interested in, if he is prosecuted and convicted, whether or not his importance and conservative politics will protect him from a Church disciplinary action. If I were him, I'd move my records to the most redneck ward I could find and hope that discretion prevented any calls from the COB or CAB.

Originally Posted by Tex (Post 304687)

And here I thought church discipline of a person for merely holding an opinion was something you and Waters opposed.

Originally Posted by Sleeping in EQ (Post 304689)

My comments were all premised on a big "if." If he's convicted of a felony, is it really right to compare that to "merely holding an opinion?"

Originally Posted by Tex (Post 304692)

Depends on what he's convicted of. I've yet to hear a reasonable argument as to what law Bybee actually broke. If you want to make that argument, maybe I can give you a better answer on how a church leader might react.

As it now stands, Bybee is being assaulted because he authored an opinion (however well or poorly argued). And now you (and Waters) are suggesting it should cost him some measure of his membership.

I was under the impression you opposed that kind of thing.

Originally Posted by Tex (Post 304692)

Depends on what he's convicted of. I've yet to hear a reasonable argument as to what law Bybee actually broke. If you want to make that argument, maybe I can give you a better answer on how a church leader might react.

As it now stands, Bybee is being assaulted because he authored an opinion (however well or poorly argued). And now you (and Waters) are suggesting it should cost him some measure of his membership.

I was under the impression you opposed that kind of thing.