Is it really Archaea who says these??? and you calim you are fascinated by sufism??

You're not saying this because it's your extremists we're killing, are you?

i guess i am strong enough to put a valid argument with you ,are you honest enough to be fair with me ? we could postpone the argument till you get back from the middle east ( after killing innocent people as many as you want to make you feel better)

over 600,00 extremists ?? wow ..i had no idea

That's the beauty of it; we could be neighbors. We could kill people together. You could teach me all about it.

Well, you better study about that then.

You haven't explained anything.

Why would a religion take it upon itself to murder somebody for an opinion? That is barbaric.

Politicians cause death for national interests, and politicians are notoriously amoral. They focus upon natural resources, alliances and popularity.

You are mistaken if you believe that Americans are brutal in comparison to past world super powers. In comparison to dominant super powers America is more benign than any before her. That doesn't mean America is completely benign, as that is not true. Simply more benign than any previous world controlling power. And the next world power will be less benign.

This is sarcasm. An American would spot it immediately.

It is possible to become an imam, a mufti and then to proclaim a fatwa of death.

I don't like it, but if one wanted to murder with impunity that is how one could do it.

i appreciate your hard effort to be funny ..
i already learned some nice words from you referirng me.
and its enough for tonight!

i havenot explained any thing? may be you havenot understood any thing ..
i am telling you the way we perceive islam is completely different from what you have imagined about a religion .becuase we believe that islam is not A thing among others which may or may not practice but ,its EVERYTHING.
and we have enough proofs for that ..so are you challenging me becuase iam not an islamic schallors and you feel better to deafet me ?? how sad

That would be unconstitutional - a violation of free exercise of religion.

You're now just spinning it.

Islam starts with an idea and a motive in the heart of a man. He either submits or does not submit to what he perceives is the will of God.

It is nonsensical to argue "Islam is everything." That's saying the universe is everything, well of course it is, because that's what the word means.

We are not challenging you, we are inviting you to explain a concept which is immoral at the natural level. It is immoral to murder.

I'm trying to UNDERSTAND - but you're not EXPLAINING. How do you expect me to UNDERSTAND if you don't EXPLAIN?

Actually, what, less than 25% of Muslims live in the Middle East?

I know for a fact based on my own experience from teaching a Muslim from Amman, Jordan in Fremont California back in 1992.

After 2 discussions he disappeared.

When we further inquired about what had happened. His brother told us that word had got out of his inquiry into Christianity and Mormonism. His brother explained to us that the sect of Islam they believed in did not allow them to inquire or even ask about other religions. That he'd seen people himself killed many times himself for even daring to question something that plagued ones mind. To associate with the thinking and behavior of Infidels was not tolerated. We were told that his brother feared for his life and had gone into hiding. I have no idea what happened to the man. He was a very good guy.

About a month later at Zone Conference a letter had been read to us giving us specific instructions that we were not to teach Muslims because of the physical danger they'd bring upon themselves should they be discovered learning about other religions.

That's just one small example.

Rocky is correct that the Church discourages the teaching of Muslims out of a fear for their safety.

On my mission I ran into a group of Saudi's studying Chinese. We hit it off well with one guy and had quite a few interesting chats with him. We didn't really teach him the discussions, but had a lot of good religious conversations. The only time he really got pissed off at me was when I told him American pro wrestling was fake. He was in love with Bret "The Hitman" Hart. It was then I knew that his heart wasn't ready.

LOL! That's a great story.

Poor Ol' Bret was forced to retire several years ago after suffering a stroke. He's in "good health" now.

It was hilarious. We were in the middle of a discussion about religion when he got a serious look on his face. In a thick Arab accent he said, "Tell me about this Bret Hart. The Hitman. The way he walks. The way he talks and wears his sunglasses. He's sooo cooool!"

It's hard to claim self-defense when we are half way around the world in THEIR countries. That is like saying someone broke into my house and killed my wife in self defense.

And what is your defense pre 9/11? We went to THEIR countries because they came to ours.

I am making no defense for radical Muslims. My point is you can't claim self defense in their countries. I believe we are making otherwise peaceful people "radical" by our occupation. There seems to be a bigoted belief on this board that all Muslims are killers and terrorists. Us being there forcing our way of government down their throats can't be good. I hope that I will have the balls to fight foreign occupation in our land if it ever comes to that. I suppose they will call me "radical" or a terrorist when I kill them with whatever means I have. We attacked Iraq with zero credible evidence. No wonder they hate us.

sorry to keep after you ,but you are not telling me that the ONLY way of living in peace and getting personally and monetarily enrichment would come up AFTER converting to christianity ,are you ?

i would love to explain it to you as far as i know ( i am not a muslim missionary nor a muslim schalor though) but with all due respect dont you think the utmost bottom line to build an argument on ,would be having at least a common ground???
what possible common ground YOU and I would have..
i would simply justify my point utilizing Quran ,do you believe in quran ?? no you dont!
i would use NAhjol Ballaghe (Ali ibn Abitaleb 's book) to elaborate my point .do you bellieve in NB?? no you dont!
i will bring lots of narrations to clarify my insights ,do you belive in our narrrations?? no you dont.
on the note side i hope you wouldnot expect underestanding complicated issues during a forum over the internet .

well, i am coming to realise your knowledge about islam is quite bewildered and preplexed so i got to be fair and not worsen it.
you read something from somewehre and then utter it without any care about the authenticity of the reference ( which i would never ever do it if i was going to criticize mormonism)
prophet mohammad was an illiterate, fairly righteous ,ordinary person who didont endorse idolarty ,rather kept monotheist befor God revealed his messages to him( when he was 40) period
there is no claim that he got the ability to say poems or was too intelligent to fabricate things masterfully.
so the words he brought (quran) were overwhelmingly beautiful and uinque ,that no one could dare to compete with that proving its a "manly word"
how ever he kept inviting people to endeavor in order to bring 10 verses or at least 1 verse alike quran , well, some people dared to contest ,but all efforts doomed to fail !
its one of most reliable narration which are written in every sunni and shia's references ..(the compitation is still open and will be open forever )
so how you possibly could say that "He either submits or does not submit to what he perceives is the will of God" ????

i just couldnot help appreciating people who keep "Fairness" alive!

sharing personal experience is a nice thing to do ,as far as it doesnot make people want to generalize it.
granted , some muslim people are too slothful to be acquainted with their religion and what makes it even worse is poor culture.
but i am dead sure you would not find any newly converted muslim who switched to islam becuase he was given help carring his grocery packs or seeing muslim missionaries doing labour (which are also good )

honor killing is something absolutely forbidden in islam, no one is allowed to do that and nothing but death penalty awaits for whom commit it.
take my words for that.

NonMuslims claim he was illiterate, but modern anthropologists and historians don't believe he was illiterate. Why do you make that claim?

I am saying ther poor among you would enrich their lives, by adopting good principles within Christianity.

Many of the customs tolerated by Islam, especially Shia, create poverty amongst them. Divorce and polygamy create poverty.

Wasnt Muhammad a lot like Joseph Smith? Searching for the true religion and God appeared before them?

Read the Ensign article on how they're similar.

Here' the ironic thing about this thread: if I said this in several Muslim countries, I would probably be dead.

And that's one of the primary reasons I have so little respect for Islam as it is practiced.

yeah ,i know the feeling ..we just do love to be alive ,why ? dont know.
may be to have more opportunities to know about the progress bikin's industries are going to make ..such a useful life!!

well, it his own words that "i am an illiterate" in terms of not being able to masterfully build up those words ..but he surly wasnot ignorant ,rather well aware .

but seriously Mike you would be surprise to see there are always plenty of heated religious debates going on in the seminaries ,the radio and tv in here
you more than welcome to come here with Mrs,Walter:)