where was I wrong? I have maintained that baseball is filled with cheaters and the drug policy is a joke.

You are welcome for my "admitting" you were right.

You are ignoring the substance of the posts. I wasn't angry at you for suggesting yccliing has cheaters. In fact, I have suggested it myslef many times. I was annoyed with your tedious, non-substantive and flippant remakrs which revealed your lack of knwoledge abotu the sport and that you assumed (as you have here, once again) I was claiming there is no cheating.

Arch's beleif is not baseless. If what you are syaing iscorrect, that all sports have these incentives and so they are all cheating, that cycling catches some of its cheaters is remarkable evidence that its testing is good and that it is efective. No sport has more rigoursou testing that cycling. None. Plus, so far three riders have tested positive. That is less than 5% of the starting peloton. Drug use in cycling remains a problem. No one is claiming otherwsie, least of all me.

The greatest hitter and pitcher of the modern era--

dopers.

And frankly, nobody cares.

5% is low. What is the percentage of players in baseball and the NFL who have tested positive (read: caught) for steroids? My guess is that it is also pretty low, but I am just guessing.

If you are acknowleding that cycling has a cheating problem, then we are agreeing and there is no point is going forward.

I am not in a position to argue your claim that no sport has a more rigorous testing regimen because I cannot outline the testing regimen for the NBA, NFL, tennis, or the MLB. Apparently you can.

Here is but one difference between cycling and any of the sports you mentioned. Random out of competition testing is mandatory. Last eyar the tour leader was kicked out of the race not becasue he tested positive, but becasue he had lied about his whereabouts during the off-season so that he could not be located when they tried to adminster a random OOC test. No other sport has that sort of requirement.

Yes, I do think all those guys you mentioned in baseball were likely doing it. You don't think someone like Smoltz took HGH to heal more quickly?n There are many drugs to cheat with and many reaonso to use them.

Gagne on the Dodgers.....was a lousy starting pitcher, almost run out of the league. They moved him to the bullpen and into middle relief and eventually a closer role. He started juicing big time (remember, he was almost sent back down).

While juiced, he put together a historic string of consecutive saves that spanned 2 seasons.

The he dropped off the juice....and he became injured, he lost his velocity, and he basically went back to sucking.